https://hmlandregistry.blog.gov.uk/2013/10/07/drawing-line-stand-boundaries/

Drawing the line – where do you stand on boundaries?

woodhedge

A boundary feature can be a fence, wall, hedge, ditch, a piece of wire, or sometimes even just the edge of a driveway. They can be the cause of heated debate and trigger arguments between neighbours, sometimes over just a few inches of ground. I often get asked questions about boundaries and they tend to be some of the hardest to answer.

I often start by explaining that we can’t tell you exactly where your legal boundary is, as our title plans only show general boundaries. In a lot of cases, we can’t tell you which boundary feature you are responsible for.

People often think they are responsible for the left (or right) hand boundary wherever they live, but there isn’t any legal basis for this. Sometimes deeds lodged with us when we first register the property may have information about it, in which case it may be mentioned in the register. In a lot of cases though, the deeds make no mention. Then there are cases where they refer to 'T' marks on a plan and include wording such as ‘to maintain the boundaries marked with an inward facing T mark’. Larger developments tend to have some indication provided by the builder, but there are no hard and fast rules I’m afraid.

If you want to change an existing boundary, such as replacing an old fence with a new one, we always recommend discussing with your neighbour first and making sure it is all agreed. The registered titles can help you to reach an agreement, but only if this information has been added.

Boundary disputes can be complex and I always suggest getting some legal advice if a dispute is in danger of flaring up. If a dispute continues, it is ultimately a Court that makes decisions. There are other organisations that can help you before things get to that stage, such as the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors (RICS) who have a boundary dispute helpline on 02476 868555. If you can reach an agreement with your neighbour though, it can be a lot less stressful and certainly a lot less costly.

Important points

Our information can sometimes help but is often part of the bigger picture

If you want to check if we have any boundary information on file, you can get a copy of your neighbour’s and your own title register, title plan and/or any deeds we have.

The title plan will show you the general boundaries of the property. A deed plan may refer to measurements but these have to be interpreted as the land may not be level and you don’t know where they were measured from.

Read our guidance on property boundaries for more information.

381 comments

  1. Comment by Samantha Mayer posted on

    Will the neighbour be informed if you request information about there deeds?

    Reply
    • Replies to Samantha Mayer>

      Comment by LandRegGov posted on

      Land Registry does not inform third parties of requests for Official
      copies of documents though information on Official copy requests may be
      revealed on enquiry such as ‘Daylist enquiry’ available to our professional
      customers.

      Reply
      • Replies to LandRegGov>

        Comment by Chris Chavasse posted on

        This is very interesting.
        I live in Australia and have a joint tenancy on a property in Gwynedd. I have to revoke a letter of authority and have been going around in circles to find someone who can assist me and provide me a regular fax number to send this to. The 0800 and 0300 numbers are not recognised here. Can you help me please

        Reply
        • Replies to Chris Chavasse>

          Comment by adamh posted on

          Chris - use our online contact form to make initial contact rather than this Blog post
          https://help.landregistry.gov.uk/app/contactus_general
          Can you also include the address/title number and also explain in more detail what you mean by revoking a letter of authority please

          Reply
          • Replies to adamh>

            Comment by Chris Chavasse posted on

            Thanks adamh - it was an awkward process from overseas however the people I managed to speak to were very helpful and the issue is resolved.

      • Replies to LandRegGov>

        Comment by Paul Welch posted on

        Thank you for the info.

        Reply
      • Replies to LandRegGov>

        Comment by 2017 lincoln mkt posted on

        This is very interesting. it was an awkward process from overseas however the people I managed to speak to were very helpful and the issue is resolved. I solved my problem!

        Reply
  2. Comment by sammi posted on

    How long should it take for land registry to look into an access issue. Our solicitor sent a query in December and we still have not heard

    Reply
    • Replies to sammi>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Hi Sammi - if they have simply written to us to make an enquiry then they should have had a response within a week or so.

      If it has been this long then I would suggest contacting us through our online contact form and provide specific details re the address, title number and the solicitors details as well. We can then forward that to the right person to investigate and respond.

      https://www.landregistry.gov.uk/contact-us/form

      Reply
      • Replies to adamh>

        Comment by sammi posted on

        Thanks for that will do that when I get home. I am paying a lot of money to the solicitor and have been waiting so long that I have lost the house I was hoping to buy. Regards

        Reply
        • Replies to sammi>

          Comment by adamh posted on

          Hopefully we can shed some light on what is going on for you once we have some details.
          Drop me a line at customer.service@landregistry.gsi.gov.uk as well just so I have the record and I can take a look as well just in case nobody is able to get back to you tomorrow.

          Reply
  3. Comment by Romina Conner posted on

    our neighbours has extended their boundaries into what they call no mans land but it does belong to someone! council don't seem to bothered but have reported to land owner.

    Reply
    • Replies to Romina Conner>

      Comment by NimishP posted on

      It may be help if I provide some background information on position of Land Registry on boundary issues.

      With regards to boundaries and extents, it is usually very difficult to find out the exact position of a boundary as most registered land and property in England and Wales is registered with general boundaries. This is because when a property is first registered:
      • the title deeds rarely give precise legal boundaries
      • often owners do not know where they are
      • finding out the exact position of the legal boundaries at the time of registration can be expensive and may lead to unnecessary disputes.

      Land Registry prepares a 'register' including a title plan which shows the property outlined in red. Land Registry is required (by rule 5 of the Land Registration Rules 2003) to base the layout of the plan on the current Ordnance Survey map of the area. This means that the lines on the title plan representing walls, fences hedges, roads and other features should be in the same positions as the lines representing the same features on the Ordnance Survey map that was current at the time the title plan was created.

      I would stress that the Title Plans whilst being as accurate as possible, are not intended as a guarantee of the measurements of the property, and registration cannot help to resolve boundary disputes. The purpose of the title plan is limited to identifying the position of the property in relation to the features on the Ordnance Survey map.

      I would also add that role of Land Registry is primarily to record ownership of the land and the rights that go with it. We do not have any enforcement or policing powers to adjudicate in disputes between two parties. That is a matter for the Courts. It is, therefore, up to the owner of the piece of land which you claim has been encroached to consider what they wish to do.

      While I can understand that the information set out above may not exactly help to resolve your concerns, I hope it is useful in clarifying Land Registry’s role and the legal position.

      Reply
      • Replies to NimishP>

        Comment by Romina Conner posted on

        I have a copy of the original deeds of the land registry and it clearly states they have exceeded their boundary. Also there is a covenant on the land which I have got last bought in 1999 by land owners.

        Reply
        • Replies to Romina Conner>

          Comment by adamh posted on

          Romina - the responsibility for protecting what they own rests with the landowner themselves. The law allows for land to be 'claimed as your own' over a period of time and use but also allows the legal owner to evict a claimant as appropriate.

          Reply
    • Replies to Romina Conner>

      Comment by jinjakab posted on

      I have a similar situation to Romina Conner, except that the no mans land at the bottom of my garden has been there for over 20 years. My neighbour says he goes over his fence just to keep the weeds down. The no mans land is about 1 meter from the rear of my fence and along the width of my garden. A small metal railing which, according to my neighbour, used to be the boundary limit of a manor house, is at the 1 meter mark from my rear fence. I want to use this extra space for my garden area. Would I have any problems with this, my neighbour would be agreeable to extend his fence as well and do it as a joint project

      Reply
      • Replies to jinjakab>

        Comment by NimishP posted on

        Jinjakab - We cannot tell you if there would be problems or what you should do. We would, however, suggest you take legal advice before considering any action.

        Reply
      • Replies to jinjakab>

        Comment by sarah smith posted on

        This would be adverse possession, which is a way of effectively obtaining property by trespassing. If the land is unregistered you would need to show that you have been in possession of the land for 12 years and you would need to evidence factual possession, how have you used the land and have you excluded all others and that the permission was adverse, then after 12 years you could possibly claim title to the land by making an application. If the land is registered, then 10 years possession, but the land registry will contact the registered proprietor who can object to the application and start eviction proceedings for you to be removed of their land. Popping over the fence and weeding would not be enough to evidence adverse possession and the railing does indicate the boundary. You could remove this and start treating the land as your own garden and include in a fenced up area, then in 12/10 years time, you may be able to claim title.

        Reply
  4. Comment by Bart posted on

    If I withdraw from a boundary dispute with my neighbour am I liable for any of their costs

    Reply
    • Replies to Bart>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Bart - if you mean in general law then you would need to cjeck with your solicitor as to what you are committed to.
      If the dispute is being considered by us in some way then the issue of costs and any liability may have already been advised to you. If not then I would suggest contacting us through the prescribed channel to enquire

      Reply
  5. Comment by Joules posted on

    Apologies but I've searched this site & can't find anything at all relating to my boundary query so not sure if you're the right guy to ask but here goes!
    A Boundary Dispute has just been resolved with a neighbour who moved in 2 years ago & changed the boundary fence between us to take a chunk out of our garden. Their rational was that the title plan showed the fence to be in a perfect straight line from it's starting position affixed to the house. They also moved the Post that was attached to the wall much further over to our side.
    The reality is/was that the fence had Always run in a straight but Angled line since the houses were construction in 1982. We had to prove all of this & in the end they moved everything back to it's original positioning
    in order to avoid court costs.
    Now that it's back to normal I've been advised that the angle of the fence ought to be relfected in the title plan to avoid any future problems?
    Can't find any guidance on If & How we should this & any advice would be much appreciated.

    Reply
    • Replies to Joules>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Joules - if you have resolved the dispute then you may want to consider entering into a formal agreement or making an applicaiton to 'determine the boundary'. Determining the boundary is explained in the blog article and in the guidance linked to

      The title plan will have been registered originally based on the old deeds/documents lodged and the Ordnance Survey detail available at the time. If those details have in essence changed for some reason then any amendment to the title plan is only likely to take place if you seek to determine the boundary as mentioned.

      A formal agreement of some kind, namely a legal deed, is likely to simply be noted against the title(s) applied against.

      Reply
      • Replies to adamh>

        Comment by Joules posted on

        Thankyou Adam! I'll have alook into Determining the Boundary but I'm not sure it's relevant because there have been No Changes,ever. The title deeds show all neighbouring fences to be at a right angle to the houses, mine included - in actual fact they were All put up at the same angle when the site was developed in 1982 , so in essence they are all parallel to each other. It was only these recent neighbours that took issue & I'm just trying to make sure it doesn't happen again!
        Thanks again for your help.

        Reply
    • Replies to Joules>

      Comment by v h posted on

      Hello, I think I am in a similar situation as you are in, wherein we think that the garden boundary is straight line from the partywall brick. I need your urgent help in rectifying this as the neighbour is currently in the process of building a garden shed and also have taken off our fences and laid foundation to build 2 bricked wall inline with party wall brick. We will be loosing our original garden area due to this. Please help asap. Thanks in advance.

      Reply
      • Replies to v h>

        Comment by adamh posted on

        VH - the only help we can offer here is the guidance and registered infirmation. It's legal advice you now need if you are in dispute with your neighbour and cannot agree. You can try online forums such as Garden Law, which can be useful resources, but remember that your boundary and your neighbour are unique to the two of you so what works for someone else may not for you.

        Reply
        • Replies to adamh>

          Comment by v h posted on

          Hello Adam, Thanks for your reply. My comment/request was to Joules to find out what exactly did they do to prove their point.

          Thanks,
          VH

          Reply
          • Replies to v h>

            Comment by adamh posted on

            Ok - I've approved your comment but worth noting that posters rarely return as this is a blog and not a forum for example

  6. Comment by 1961loulou posted on

    Can we ask Land Registry to speed up a TP1 application that needs to be done to complete our sale? Last minute hurdle. We had an indemnity policy covering this which we are told is not valid and never did cover our situation. It is a mutual swap of 8 sq m of garden for 12 sq m of garden done nearly 50 years ago between neighbours on a verbal basis but was never recorded with Land Registry. This boundary has been in place since 1968. Our purchase is in danger of falling through due to the time it may take and therefore the sale will not take place.

    Reply
    • Replies to 1961loulou>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      1961 loulou - we normally ask the lodging conveyancer to contact us in such circumstanecs to advise of the urgency and to ask us to expedite matters. We will do our best to speed the application up in such circumstances but do use your conveyancer to do this as they will be aware of other issues (if any) which may be delaying any registration

      Reply
      • Replies to adamh>

        Comment by 1961loulou posted on

        Thank you for your reply. It was helpful.

        Reply
        • Replies to 1961loulou>

          Comment by 1961loulou posted on

          Our conveyancer said he put a request for expedition in with the application. Is this enough? Can I call Land Registry as well to ask how it is proceeding as our sale/purchase hangs on this and time is getting short?

          Reply
          • Replies to 1961loulou>

            Comment by adamh posted on

            1961loulou - that should be enough and I would check with them as to what our response was
            You can ring to check also on 0300 006 0411

          • Replies to adamh>

            Comment by 1961loulou posted on

            Thank you Adam, I will do that.

  7. Comment by Anna cooper posted on

    hi Adam,

    I have been trying to exchange on my house purchase for 18 weeks now. Very frustrated because nobody can give advice. I need simple yes, there is a point and basis for application or do not bother.

    My house is a probate sale. It was bought new in 1967, three foot wide flower bed has been for the last 48 years used, only, without hindrance etc as a part of their garden. Now they are dead.

    I have accidents spotted the discrepancy between registered land and the actual garden. I would like to know, can I as a new owner apply basing on their occupation of the land or do I have to wait 12 years before I can do so?

    Thank you
    Anna

    Reply
    • Replies to Anna cooper>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Anna - you can apply at any time but you will need to supply sufficient evidence to support that application and to enable us to provide title to the land.

      Our Practice Guides 4 and 5 explain the registration requirements
      https://www.gov.uk/topic/land-registration/practice-guides
      You do not mention whether the land is already registered or not as this matters with regards which guide is relevant to you.
      Section 4.3 of PG 5 offers guidance on the issue of the supporting evidence as doubtless your main concern is that the previous potential claimants are now dead

      Once you have read the relevant guide I would recommend that you seek legal advice as well with regards preparing any application.

      Deciding whether to proceed with the purchase and then claim the land is something to dicuss with your conveyancer.

      Reply
      • Replies to adamh>

        Comment by Anna cooper posted on

        Hi Adam,

        Thank you. The problem is the solicitors try to make it complicated and are not able to give a clear cut answer (read between the lines make it expensive). I have a stat declaration made by the sons who in tally lived there, I have aerial photos since 1999 (as far as Google Earth let me go) shoiwng fence in this position. The land is u register in the index Map searches.

        Any further suggestion.
        Thank you very kindly.
        Anna

        Reply
        • Replies to Anna cooper>

          Comment by adamh posted on

          Anna - there is nothing more that I can usefully add or suggest I'm afraid as the choice is largely yours. You have the evidence you have and cannot I assume supply or prepare anything else.

          If you and your solicitor don't think that is 'good enough' then you would have to wait 12 years as you suggested.
          You cna apply at any time as mentioned but we won't be able to accept/reject it until you do

          Reply
  8. Comment by salamanca11 posted on

    My neighbours conservatory has been built right on the party line, prior to him buying the house. I am now planning to build a conservatory and this could cause problems. However, we may both be agreeable to leaving his conservatory where it is which encroached onto my land but my new structure would likewise encroach into his side as the divide is angled and not a straight line. Would we need to register this with Land Regustry it is a private agreement sufficient?

    Reply
    • Replies to salamanca11>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      salamanca11 - you will need legal advice on this not only re formalising the agreement to make it binding on all parties but also to cover whether it should be registered or remain private.

      Such agreements can be registered or you can apply for a determined boundary as appropriate.

      Whether you need to do either though is a question for a conveyancer/solicitor to advise on

      Reply
  9. Comment by Angus McQueen posted on

    Adam
    We own a parcel of land that comes under two ref=gistration numbers, each with a home on it. We have recently changed the garden configurations such that what was once two long gardens is now one short garden and the other a long garden in an 'L' shape across the back of both properties.
    We would like to formalise this boundary alteration so that it is all in order should we wish to sell either property.
    Can you advise which form we need to complete and also the fee required when we submit the form.
    Many thanks
    Angus

    Reply
    • Replies to Angus McQueen>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Angus - such a reconfigoration is usually done naturally through the registration process.
      For example if you are selling just part of one title or say the whole of one and part of the other then this would be completed and the registration of the purchase would trigger the reconfiguration of the title(s) as appropriate.

      Whilst you could apply to make the changes suggested I am afraid at present we would refuse to process the application as we have a number of competing priorities in relation to the registration of actual sales, mortgages and so on

      Hopefully we will be able to review that stance in the not too distant future.

      Reply
      • Replies to adamh>

        Comment by Angus McQueen posted on

        Adam
        Many thanks for your swift and useful reply. Much appreciated.

        Reply
        • Replies to Angus McQueen>

          Comment by P Behan posted on

          I was most interested in this exchange as it's almost on "all fours" with the situation I find myself in. We purchased a house on a plot of almost an acre. The grounds consist of two separate plots, each having their own registered title. The smaller sized plot formed part of the gardens and couldn't be built on due to the presence of a very large and magnificent 120+ year old Oak tree: this had to be removed due to disease, which rendered it liable to sudden stem failure. Not requiring such a large sized garden any more we decided to sell the small plot plus some of the larger plot, and to make it more attractive to potential purchasers, we obtained outline planning permission. We're now in the process of selling the land but, is the buyer's solicitor making a meal of things!

          We provided them with a detailed plan showing the general boundaries of the land being sold and that being retained and endorsed it with the actual width of the plot. The buyer's solicitor has raised issue after issue with the map and restrictive covenants insisting that it doesn't scale up to the exact width and we must provide the buyer's with indemnity insurance to cover a possible situation arising of the original seller of the land objecting to them building over the original boundary.

          The buyers have been made aware of a. plans/title deeds show normally general rather than exact boundaries, but in this case the plan has been endorsed with the exact width; b. the courts, when dealing with boundary disputes, pose the Q. "Looking at the evidence, i.e., the map/title plan, what would a reasonable person understand he was buying?", which is crystal clear from the provided plan; c. the procedure followed by the LR in registering boundary changes, as outlined in your response to Angus above; d. as the planning permission/law as it stands prevents the building to a boundary closer than 1m and the fact that the restrictive covenant relating to the original boundary will apply to the new rather than the original boundary, and the fact that the original seller was declared bankrupt in 2006 and the general practice with all householders in the neighbourhood has been to ignore this particular covenant, then indemnity insurance is unnecessary. However, the buyer's solicitors are still insisting on an "accurate" map and indemnity insurance and also that confirmation is obtained from the LR that the plan with the measurements shown on it is acceptable.

          Frankly, I'm rather frustrated with this whole matter and the solicitors turning, what should be, a pretty straightforward matter into something else, that I'm on the brink of calling a halt to proceedings.

          Before I take that step, however, I wanted to seek your views, Adam, and those of others who use this forum.

          Reply
          • Replies to P Behan>

            Comment by adamh posted on

            P Behan - it sounds as if you have a good grasp of the issues involved and how they are often viewed. However I would add the following
            The buyer (and their solicitor) will need to assess the 'risk' attached to any purchase with regards anything they feel is left unresolved whether it is the plan/boundaries or covenants. This can lead to the requests being made here and in many ways it is for you to decide whether you play ball or not. They then have the same choice re continuing or not.

            Where boundaries are concerned it is important to consider not only the quality of the plan but also how that boundary is shown on the land itself. If it is clear on the ground where the boundary will be e.g. substantial fence and that reasonably matches the general plan provided then that can suffice

            Whilst you will see a number of comments/enquiries attached to these blogs they are all quite unique to the authors so it is not a forum as such. It is in fact very rare for anyone to post a reply/comment on someone else's comment.
            If you are looking for a forum approach then I would suggest using Garden Law or Money Saving Expert as two of the most useful re such things.
            But I would again come back to the point that the buyer can ask of you what they will so no matter how many other people may say otherwise it is still their choice as to how they proceed as you, the seller, and your land/property are quite unique.

          • Replies to adamh>

            Comment by P Behan posted on

            Adam, Thank you for your swift and clear response and my apologies for misunderstanding the nature of this discussion stream; I'll observe the correct proceduere in future.

  10. Comment by Guest P Cole posted on

    Our boundary can be easily seen as it is the edge of our roof space in a staggered terrace. We bought our property 5 years ago and our plot should be 18' wide according to the deeds. It is approx 17'3". The issue with the boundary has come to light as we wish to upgrade our drainage and found the neighbour had attached the fence post partially over the drain. He has removed this and also the next panel to give us access but I am trying to reach an agreement with him to move the fence back to the boundary. This would mean the removal of concrete posts, not only by the house but also down the garden. I do not know how long the posts have been there. Could he claim adverse possession if over 10 years? I am trying to reach an agreement with him that the boundary is corrected near the house by removal of 2 concrete posts and the rest corrected in the future when works are done. Do I need to get a legal agreement set up?

    Reply
    • Replies to Guest P Cole>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Guest - how you approach this is largely down to you and your neighbour.
      If the position has been as is for a long enough time then the neighbour may well be able to claim adverse possession however the law is complex and I would recommend seeking legal advice to clarify. Our practice guide explains the essentials involved but that is merely from a registration perspective
      https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/adverse-possession-of-registered-land

      If you do reach an agreement then it is often best to formalise it in some way. Again legal advice can help and our online guidance may offer some ideas as to how best to approach it
      https://www.gov.uk/your-property-boundaries

      Reply
      • Replies to adamh>

        Comment by Guest P Cole posted on

        Thank you Adam ...... These properties have the following restrictive covenant recorded on the Land Registry docs ....PROVIDED that the Purchasers and their successors in title shall not
        be entitled to any right of access of light or air to the buildings
        erected or to be erected on the land hereby conveyed which would
        restrict or interfere with the free user of any other part of the said
        estate for building or any other purpose."
        which I understand should protect me from my neighbour claiming my land and not give right to adverse possession (should they be entitled to apply) I presume restrictive covenants supersede adverse possession

        Reply
        • Replies to Guest P Cole>

          Comment by adamh posted on

          Guest - restrictive covenants would have no bearing on a claim for adverse possession so the question of superseding does not arise

          Reply
  11. Comment by Amo posted on

    I am currently in a boundary dispute with the Council but the measurements are not on my Title Deeds.

    The Council need my land so that a wheelie bin can be pushed at the side of the council property’s ramp; whereas the land I want back is the difference to allow a car to be able to drive alongside the house and allowing access to the back of my property.

    The Council said I needed to prove where the boundary lies and where they have encroached. My evidence is an ordinance survey plan with the measurements, with the land surveyors signature. This land surveyor measured my property, but works with the Council. Even though he is an independent surveyor, there are issues in regards to him not willing to come forward, without the Council`s permission. I also have photographic evidence clearly displaying the change in the house and surroundings in support of the survey plan.

    The Council changed the outlook of the neighbouring property because of subsidence, which led to underpinning and building a ramp to go with the structural changes of the house. These changes have caused the land to be raised and them using my fence as the retaining wall for their property.

    Before the Council started the work, I clearly stated the fence I had put up was well inside my land and was not for the purpose of a boundary marker. I told the Council I intended to move the fence onto the line of the boundary when I could afford to do so, but the Council replied accusing me of stealing land.

    The Council began ignoring me so I went to a solicitor’s firm, and the first solicitor said I had all the evidence needed to prove where the boundary lies. Unfortunately, that solicitor moved to a different firm.

    The second solicitor’s action was to organise meetings on site in relation to encroachment onto my property in order to prove the original boundary. The first meeting closed with agreement that the boundary was established in my favour, as the solicitor and the Council used my measurements.

    The second meeting was to draw up an agreement for the correction of the boundary, but the Council came back with a new proposal (using a line of string inside my land), disregarding the measurements and previous meeting.

    I am feeling disheartened as nothing seems to be happening, please can somebody offer me advice?

    Reply
    • Replies to Amo>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Amo - it sounds as if you are doing everything you should do to resolve the issue and it is really down to you and the Council to resolve as it is your views which will count here.

      The land registry information can assist in understanding the general boundaries for each property whilst the Ordnance Survey detail will confirm where the physical features were when they surveyed the area.

      The surveyor will use their professional skills to interpret such information along with the reality on the ground. Their view is though a view like any others and it still comes down to you and the Council agreeing a way forward.

      There is little anyone can add or advise on I'm afraid and I would recommend pursuing the matter with the Council and trying to agree.

      Reply
  12. Comment by John Bates posted on

    John Rowlands
    in 2007 after a long dispute with my neighbour land registry agreed that a strip of land about 9 ft wide, fenced in since I purchased the house, attached to my garden and used by myself for the last 22 years in the honest belief that it was part of my garden, was mine under adverse possession and they issued a ruling to that effect.
    My neighbour disputes this to this day and repeatedly sends me letters accusing me of stealing his land and threatening legal action. How can I get these changes made to my deeds so that this causes no problems when I sell the house.

    Reply
    • Replies to John Bates>

      Comment by NimishP posted on

      John - You seem to imply that ownership of the said land was granted to you following a claim under Adverse Possession. If that is the case, then the process would have been formalised by registering the land in your name and the title register and plan as evidence of ownership.

      If I have misunderstood your question or facts, please email us at customer.service@landregistry.gsi.gov.uk with full details of the land concerned so we can look into it.

      With regards to the continued actions of your neighbour, all we can suggest is you seek legal advice.

      Reply
      • Replies to NimishP>

        Comment by John Bates posted on

        Thanks for your quick reply. The land title No. is SH17760 and the notification to us was dated 24/1/2007.
        If, as your email implies, the land was registered in my name at this time is it possible to obtain a copy of the registration showing the new plot measurments? and copy of title.
        Regards,
        John Bates

        Reply
        • Replies to John Bates>

          Comment by adamh posted on

          John - the title you refer to relates to the property as a whole rather than any claimed land
          Your original comment implied that you had sought to register your claim to a piece of land, hence my colleague's reply. There was no implication that the land had been registered in your name - that was your implication from your original comment.

          Looking at the electronic records for the title quoted it would appear that you have already corresponded with us on the matter and been advised in November last year of our position.

          If you are seeking to claim ownership of land not currently included in the quoted registered title then I would recommend you seek legal advice in order to understand whether you have a claim in law which is then protectable through registration.

          Reply
  13. Comment by NimishP posted on

    Concerned - It depends on what is happening with regards to the title concerned. If we have received an application for amending the title in some manner, we would, where appropriate, write to the people that may be affected as a result of any action and give them an opportunity to object.

    Please refer to our Practice Guide 37: Objections and disputes, a guide to Land Registry practice and procedures - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/objections-and-disputes-a-guide-to-land-registry-practice-and-procedures
    You may also find Practice Guide 39: Rectification and Indemnity of interest. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/rectification-and-indemnity

    Hope this helps.

    Reply
    • Replies to NimishP>

      Comment by concerned posted on

      Access has not been required in eight years of residing in property. The door that once was in situ on neighbouring property which prompted an alleged agreement some years back is no longer in existence

      Reply
      • Replies to concerned>

        Comment by adamh posted on

        Concerned - my colleague Nimish has explained what the next steps are from a registration perspective.
        As far as the wider issues are concerned, especially whether the right of access remains valid for example after not being used for some years, I would recommend seeking legal advice.

        Rights of access/way are rarely extinguished simply through lack of use and often there has to be evidence to show a deliberate act on the part of the benefiting landowner to relinquish the right e.g. bricking up a doorway so if the door no longer exists this is probably something to discuss with a solicitor

        Reply
        • Replies to adamh>

          Comment by concerned posted on

          Property was purchased with surveyors report stating no access or right of way - what's the point if having a survey if this then happens ? The saying an Englishman's home is his castle is a joke

          Reply
          • Replies to concerned>

            Comment by adamh posted on

            Concerned - a surveyor's report simply provides an interpretation of what exists on the ground so if there was no access point then that is what they would report.
            However that does not mean a right does not exist as the surveyor is not investigating the title itself or similar issues

  14. Comment by Leanne posted on

    When we bought our property 12 years ago, the seller advised that we were not responsible for any fences as the one's on our right were "end fences" of property backing on to our garden, and that the fence line on our left, belonged to our neighbour.

    After checking with our original documents there appears to be no "T" referring to which fence belongs to whom, so we're not too sure now and repair works needs to be carried out. We could agree to split costs with neighbour, but want to check first.

    Reply
    • Replies to Leanne>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Leanne - if you are looking to repair fences then our advice is to pool information and share understanding with your neighbour(s) and agree a way forward.

      T markings or specific references to fencing can help to understand what was expected to happen in the past but not every property would refer
      What previous owners have or have not done can help understand what has gone before as well
      But ultimately, if the properties are 'old' and have changed hands a number of times over the years, it is simply a case of discussing and agreeing what happens next

      Reply
  15. Comment by Goluckydemonzzz posted on

    We are in a dispute over the boundary of my mothers flat,which was owned by Oldham Council for the last 25 yeas of her living there, two years ago they past the land to first choice homes who they now say are in charge of it, on this land there is a tree and the root system has damaged the fence and flags of a house At the rear of my mothers but of to the right of her flat about 15 years ago when my father was alive they asked if they could prune the tree to stop it taking the light of there window, and was told by Oldham council no as it was there tree and was therefore maintained by the parks department of the council, who have proceeded to just leave it and hence the problem we have now. Also at that time they had the council out to check there boundary which an official came round took a tape and said your boundary is here and run the tape down the side of the flat and that was exactly were my father put the side of the fence,now about four foot the side of the fence is the footpath, now what First choice homes is saying that the boundary is the edge of the footpath so it is our tree and its on our land and you will have to pay to have the tree cut down and then the people who own the house at the back will be coming on to my mother to pay for the damage to there property caused by the tree. On my mothers plans for the flat is the boundary line, which we have always know we're it was because it was official pointed out to us by Oldham council, who now say it is First choice home is land now so sort it out with them, my mother is 86 years old but still has the common sense to know when she is being railroaded into paying for something so First Choice don't have to, is there any advice you could give me to sort this situation out as it is really upsetting my mother.

    Reply
  16. Comment by Fightthegoodfight posted on

    Hi my neighbour & I are in dispute over her building a dividing wall on my land, between our houses. The gutter lies on my side of our semi-detached houses. She has just recently built a new shared drainage pipe right that now drains right in the middle of this gutter but used to be nearer to my side of the boundary between our houses. The other main point is that I have a garage at the back of our houses that came with my house when I bought in the mid 80s and I had my garage extended slightly about 18 years ago. She built a boundary wall about 7 years ago and it slanted towards my garage and was not built in a straight line. The wall has been knocked down and hence the dispute continues as she now wants to build it again as the pillar to this wall remains on her side. As I understand legally she has to build his wall 6 inches from my garage in a straight line so I can access it. Am I correct ?

    Reply
    • Replies to Fightthegoodfight>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Fightthegoodfight - I have not heard of or read about the '6 inches' aspect you refer to but that is not a matter we would deal with or cover I'm afraid. I would recommend you seek legal advice as a result.

      In my experience such matters invariably come down to neighbours discussing and agreeing such matters between themselves. We can only provide registered details and whilst these can assist in such discussions they will not provide the level of detail the reality on the ground provides.

      Reply
      • Replies to adamh>

        Comment by Fightthegoodfight posted on

        Thanks for your reply Adam. So is asking a chartered surveyor to draw the boundary line the correct & legal way to proceed ?

        Reply
        • Replies to Fightthegoodfight>

          Comment by adamh posted on

          A surveyor is always helpful when looking at boundaries as they can bring their professional knowledge and experience to bear.

          It does not affect the 'legal' aspects though as in cases where neighbours are in dispute the Surveyor's view is, just like the neighbours and indeed ours, just that, namely a view.

          For example the neighbour may disregard the surveyor's view/plan.

          Reply
          • Replies to adamh>

            Comment by Fightthegoodfight posted on

            So you are saying a court of law is the only way to get the correct legal decision ?

          • Replies to Fightthegoodfight>

            Comment by adamh posted on

            The only enforcement re such matters is through a court - my understanding is that the courts expect neighbours to where possible to resolve such matters between themselves.

            If you have not sought legal advice then I would recommend doing so as they will have experience of such matters from a legal perspective and can advise accordingly as to the best way forward.

          • Replies to adamh>

            Comment by Fightthegoodfight posted on

            And the judge etc will decide what the boundary line is and both parties must agree with his/her decision ?

          • Replies to Fightthegoodfight>

            Comment by adamh posted on

            If the matter reaches court then the judge is the arbiter on such matters, yes
            Please do seek legal advice though as we do not deal with the court process or legal aspects around such disputes

          • Replies to adamh>

            Comment by Fightthegoodfight posted on

            Ok thanks Adam.

  17. Comment by scmarf posted on

    Hi Adam.
    We became aware that my elderly Mother's neighbour had demolished his garage wall and moved it about 10 ins onto my Mother's drive. When we asked her she said she thinks she gave him permission (she is rather forgetful). The property is legally owned by my Mother, sister and I. All we have is photographic evidence of the original wall location. Has my Mum legally given him our land?

    Reply
    • Replies to scmarf>

      Comment by NimishP posted on

      Hi Scmarf - I have replied to your query in the absence of my collegue, Adam.
      You seem to indicate that the property is jointly owned by three of you, in which case one person cannot legally give away the land to someone else.
      With regards to the neighbour moving the location of their wall, I would suggest you seek legal advice from a solicitor or Citizens Advice. A lot will depend on what was discussed with your mother.
      Hope this helps.

      Reply
  18. Comment by Vicki Baker posted on

    Hi Adam,

    Can a section sized title be moved from one end of a 10 acre block to the other end of the block?

    Reply
  19. Comment by Ian posted on

    Hi

    Adam is currently unavailable but I will hopefully be able to give some assistance.

    But it is difficult to say without specific details. The procedures for fixing a boundary more precisely -
    https://www.gov.uk/your-property-boundaries are different from those for transferring land out of a title.

    It'd be best to contact us with full details for procedural guidance - https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/land-registry/about/access-and-opening

    You might also want to get independent advice, e.g. from a solicitor, if you're unsure how to proceed.

    Reply
  20. Comment by Btljce82 posted on

    Hi.my neighbour says my ground floor extension (specifically the gutter, tiles & lead flashing) encroaches their boundary by a matter of 3cm. They are threatening court action via a solicitors, letter but haven't actually proved an encroachment. They are insisting we appoint a joint surveyor to determine boundary position. Is it correct that the onus would be on them to prove encroachment as we don't think we are in breech and if boundaries were encroached, only once proven, would we be liable to carry out remedial works?

    Reply
    • Replies to Btljce82>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      B - not something we can advise on I'm afraid and it is legal advice you need here, in much the same way as they have.

      Disputes over such matters are best resolved between neighbours but to understand what is legally required here, what obligations you/they are under and what would happen if they did go to court you will need legal advice.

      Reply
  21. Comment by SamF posted on

    Hi,

    I wonder if you can help me. We are just finishing renovating a property which has a wide alleyway to the side of it. We are end of terrace and the alleyway, adjacent to our house, as far as we can understand is deemed to be no-man's land. The council have said they do not own it & don't make any effort to look after it. It is a dumping ground for litter / unwanted items.

    Our garden wall is angled and we would like to build out into the alleyway. I will approach the neighbours and assuming they don't have an issue with it, what is stopping me from doing this? It wont affect anything / anyone as there are no neighbours walls / gardens/ land that will be encroached at all in that space.

    Is this then termed adverse possession & i need to own it for 12 years and then claim for the title?

    My worry with that is that we are only likely to live there for 5 years and don't want to sell with a question mark against the work we will have done to make the garden larger.

    Can you offer any advise?

    Best

    Sam

    Reply
    • Replies to SamF>

      Comment by SteveLR123 posted on

      SamF- As starting point may be a good idea just to check whether the alleyway is actually registered or not ie whether it is attached to the land beside you ( as end of terrace). To do this try our 'Find a property' service https://www.gov.uk/search-property-information-land-registry, which incorporates a 'Land Locator' although the alleyway may be tricky to pinpoint if its only few feet wide.

      As to adverse possession, yes i m afraid it's 12 year wait after which you show the basis of your claim ownership for unregistered land (10 years if its registered)

      Reply
  22. Comment by Tim posted on

    Good afternoon Adam. If I have a perfectly amicable undisputed slight boundary change between myself and next door neighbour (new boundary fence moved around a tree to avoid it being felled) approximately how long will it take for the new deeds to be available if we both submit the requisit information. I am in the process of selling my house so need it done as soon as possible. Many thanks. Tim.

    Reply
    • Replies to Tim>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Tim - there are no fixed timescales re this type of application but I would expect it to take a few weeks at least

      The key thing to do when submitting the application is to make it clear that there is a pending sale and to provide details of that sale along with a request to expedite the application

      Reply
  23. Comment by Tim posted on

    Thank you very much for your quick response, I'll take your advice on board. Thanks again. Tim.

    Reply
  24. Comment by nick posted on

    i have a paragraph in my deeds that state i give my neighbours 'pass and repass over my land at waters level' however the title plans registered extent shows that there is a gap between the registered extent and the pond. how can i rectify the fact that the title plan may be wrong

    Reply
  25. Comment by SamF posted on

    Hi Adam,

    I contacted you a few weeks ago and you suggested i contact the land register regarding a wide alleyway that runs between my house and my neighbors on which i would like to extend my garden slightly. My solicitor has initiated a search and come back with the answer that the land is not owned any anyone. See below copied from Document received from Land register office

    "No registered estate, caution against first registration or
    application for first registration or application for a caution
    against first registration is shown on the index map in relation to
    the Property. We therefore hold no records in respect of the Property."

    On the understanding that no one owns it, and my neighbors are happy with whatever i look at doing, i.e extending my garden wall into the alleyway. Who could stop me from doing what i want in the alleyway, assuming the neighbors are happy & there is still pedestrian access.

    I would have to wait 12 years until i owned the title but don't see much risk of being rejected it if everyone is happy.

    What are your thoughts / advise.

    Regards

    Sam

    Reply
    • Replies to SamF>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Sam - the search result confirms that the land is unregistered rather than unowned. All land is owned but not all of it is registered simply because the ownership has not changed for decades.

      If you are looking for some wider insight on what can happen re such cases then you might want to take a look at forums such as Garden Law and Money Saving Expert for personal experiences.

      All I would say is that every situation is unique in so far as who is doing the claiming, who the neighbours are and of course who the actual legal owner is. So it is often best to research what may happen during the 12 years of your initial claim and what you can or would do as a result - legal advice can also help with that

      Reply
  26. Comment by Lou Howell posted on

    3 years ago I removed two panels of the boundary fence and replaced it with a bamboo plant. At the time of doing this my neighbour had installed her own fence line along side mine (We both had our own fences) . Now she has removed her fence line and is claiming that I have planted a plant on her property and encroached by one inch and is threatening me with court action. Can she claim the gap between our two fence lines is her own? Surely If the boundary fence is on my land then an inch the other side could still be mine? Is there any law or guides that culd be relevant?

    Reply
    • Replies to Lou Howell>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Lou - there is no law or guidance that would cover issues of an inch i'm afraid as the distance is simply too small.
      As the blog article explains disputes between neighbours are best resolved by the neighbours themselves. Courts take a vary dim view when such matters are put before them so I would suggest seeking legal advice on whether the neighbour's action is likely to be successful.

      Reply
  27. Comment by Bruce Durant posted on

    Is there a downside if any form not re-registering ownership of a property when you inherit a share in that property form somebody's will?

    Reply
    • Replies to Bruce Durant>

      Comment by NimishP posted on

      Bruce - I am not very clear on the precisely nature of your query, but failure to register would mean the person would not be shown as the 'legal' owner of the property.

      If you have any further questions, please provide full details as we cannot just respond on hypothetical basis.

      Reply
  28. Comment by Ben posted on

    I am buying a new build where we have a an adjoining property to our left. The boundary fence to our right is with two gardens of properties where they have already moved in. The boundary fence is about 3/4 of a foot in from the end of our wall. About 1 1/2 brick lengths. The boundary fence to the left is yet to be erected but I fear they may do the same and position inside our general boundary line. Even though it is clear where one property starts and ends. I feel it would be unfair if we lost 1/2 foot either side on our garden. Where do we stand?

    Reply
    • Replies to Ben>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Ben - as the article explains where you stand really depends on how you and your neighbours view/agree the position.
      The best bet is to take your registered details and understanding and share that with your neighbour(s) and agree a way forward.
      A 1/2 foot is simply too small for any registered plan or details to cover/clarify so it is most likely to come down to the reality on the ground and you all agreeing the best way forward

      Reply
  29. Comment by colin7777 posted on

    I am currently looking at buying a property and the original land was sold as plots in 1901. The drawing from 1901 showing each plot and they are all adjoining each other. Since then the plots have been changed in shape and size and now on the Land Registry there is a small strip of land between 2 plots that is not shown as owned by anyone. The land registry are saying the drawing is correct but as the original plan shows the plots adjoining each other how can this approx. 2 foot strip now not be registered to either party. How can this be resolved
    Thanks
    Colin

    Reply
    • Replies to colin7777>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Colin - the key will presumably be filling in the 'gap' between the 1901 details and those submitted at the time of first registration but I would guess you have already sought to cover that 'gap' in some way with us?
      If you have been in touch with us already then that is the avenue to take in trying to resolve it.

      Reply
      • Replies to adamh>

        Comment by colin7777 posted on

        Hi, as I have not purchased the plot at present, it was asked of the sellers solicitors to investigate and I understand that Land Registry has said the drawing of the plots either side are correct so it leaves this strip of approx. 2 feet. From the 1901 plan and a later 1946 plan there is no gap and the plots meet each other.
        Would a boundary agreement by both sides help solve the problem ?
        I have also obtained individual plans and obviously these have developed throughout the years and when you look at both plans the other plot is shown to actually encroach on the plot I am looking at buying.
        This raises another question, what happens when owners have plans that show their land overlaps. Which drawing would the Land Registry accept as correct, do they use their plan which has the NK numbers on as the controlling document over individual plans.
        Sorry it hard to follow but this is all new to me and I wasn't expecting all these problems in buying a piece of land.

        Reply
        • Replies to colin7777>

          Comment by adamh posted on

          Colin - we will base any judgement or registration on the title plans for each NK title A boundary agreement would not resolve the problem as presumably there is a 'gap' of unregistered land rather than two registered titles which adjoining each other.As such someone will need to apply to register ownership of that 'gap' and I would assume that would be whoever can prove that they have been occupying it for example

          Reply
  30. Comment by concerned posted on

    Private Right of Way. On property title states something like occupants heirs and successors does that include anyone else nominated to use the ROW ?

    Reply
    • Replies to concerned>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      concerned - it's legal advice you really need hear to understand how the wording can be interpreted.
      Although in my experience occupants, heirs and successors is much more limited than for example someone the landowner nominates.
      If you own the land and it (not you) has the benefit of a right of way then if for example you sold part of that land then that too could enjoy the benefit.

      Reply
  31. Comment by Mary posted on

    Hi - we live in a terrace with a garden which backs onto a road, which I assume is owned by the council. Our boundary wall is well inside the boundary of our property as shown on the Land Registry map: there is enough room to park a car there. However, that space has been paved by the council. We'd like to move the boundary wall back out and have that space as part of our garden. I can't work out who I would need to speak to at the council to check this is OK - any ideas? Or should we get legal advice before approaching that council? Thanks so much!

    Reply
    • Replies to Mary>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Mary - if the Council own the road then I would imagine it would be their Estates department or similar that you would contact
      If you move the wall then you are in essence trying to take possession of someone else's land so if you intend to do that then yes legal advice is strongly recommended.

      If the road is registered then you can check who owns it online or by post
      https://www.gov.uk/get-information-about-property-and-land

      Reply
  32. Comment by Saju John posted on

    Is it Conveyance document is same as Property Deed?

    Reply
    • Replies to Saju John>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Saju - they can be one and the same although a Property deed can mean a variety of things

      A Conveyance is a legal deed used to convey (sell/gift) unregistered land/property. Once registered you would use a Transfer to sell/gift the land/property.

      A property deed therefore could be a conveyance, a transfer or even a copy of the register depending on your definition of the term/it's context

      Reply
  33. Comment by Ann-Marie Burgin posted on

    Hi I'm struggling to find out who os responsible for one of my boundaries. The title plan shows it with something that looks like a lollipop all around the edge of the land. Could you tell me what this means please? Thank you

    Reply
    • Replies to Ann-Marie Burgin>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Ann-Marie - the lollipop is an Ordnance Survey marking and has no relevance to who is responsible for a boundary.

      Reply
  34. Comment by Hild Liptrott posted on

    Our neighbour has built a new fence between his garden and our car park at the rear of the properties without our permission. The existing fence was in need of replacing and he said it was owned by us. We established there was no evidence of ownership of the fence after which he built the new fence which he has built slightly in to our car park at one section. We have looked into pursuing this legally and have decided it would be too costly and lengthy. We have decided to accept this new fence, so how do we go about establishing this new fence with Land Registry please

    Reply
    • Replies to Hild Liptrott>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Hild - if you wish to formalise the arrangement then our online guidance explains how to do this
      https://www.gov.uk/your-property-boundaries

      Reply
      • Replies to adamh>

        Comment by Hild Liptrott posted on

        Thanks for your reply Adamh. I assumed that we had to legally formalise the new boundary as wouldn't the morgage company need to be informed of this change, as we thought it might be a problem when any of the flats in our property are sold.

        Reply
        • Replies to Hild Liptrott>

          Comment by adamh posted on

          Hild - if you formalise it then the mortgage provider would normally be involved or at least made aware but much depends on how you decide to formalise it.

          The mortgage provider should be able to advise from their perspective as a result

          Reply
  35. Comment by Sam Mie posted on

    Could I kindly ask a question
    On our TP1 and orginal land registty form it clearly shows a section of road as shared vehicular / pedestrian right of access
    We was told this ment technically no one is allowed to park on this part of the road and definatley block or obstruct anyone's right of access etx
    There are allocated parking bays detailed on this TP1 and original land reg

    However a lady has moved in as a tenant and is claiming its all hers and her parking ️bays and no ones shared right of access

    Thus preventing us getting access to our home and garden via our gate

    Reply
    • Replies to Sam Mie>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Sam - it reads like you need legal advice to understand who owns what and what rights you, they and the new tenant have over the land.
      The registered details for each title will help to understand the above although often, when someone makes such claims, it is helpful to ask them for evidence to back it up as well so you have a full picture.
      I would recommend checking the registered details and then seeking legal advice

      Reply
      • Replies to adamh>

        Comment by Sam Mie posted on

        Ty here is a zoomed in part of the area which is on our deads and is clearly shown as shared vehicular/ pedestrian right of access

        Reply
      • Replies to adamh>

        Comment by Sam Mie posted on

        Here is the zoomed in part on my TP1 deeds
        The hatches pats of the road as clearly shown as shared vehicular / pedestrian right of access

        This is also access into our property

        Reply
        • Replies to Sam Mie>

          Comment by adamh posted on

          Sam - that's fine but you will also need the affected registers and title plans as appropriate and then legal advice.
          We can supply the registered details, of which a part is presumably the deed you refer to, but we cannot then advise you on your legal rights

          Reply
          • Replies to adamh>

            Comment by Sam Mie posted on

            Yes please how do I do that
            As this is our deeds (original land registry document - ive zoomed in so personal Imformation is not Sen or am I ok to post that on here ?) and this is what we was ️️sold when we brought the house that this area is shared vehicular / pedestrian acces and are not allocated parking bays

          • Replies to Sam Mie>

            Comment by adamh posted on

            Sam - there's no need to post anything on here
            If you are trying to confirm the registered details then you can do so online and by post as per our online guidance
            https://www.gov.uk/get-information-about-property-and-land

  36. Comment by geogteacher:) posted on

    Hi
    At the rear of our garden, two properties boarder us which were built after ours (around 20 years later - we were built 1929) . There was some "no mans land" between us and the rear properties that one have over lapped onto at some historic point (around a 1m have a wall at the rear of our garden). Now the supporting wall (the properties are 4m higher than us) has a large and dangerous cracks and needs urgent repair. I'm trying to work out if its a party wall or solely their wall. Our deeds mention we are responsible for the walls to the south and north however we are a corner property and the house to the right to us (and not part of this) is what the solicitor and I believe referred to as the north a property. However as there is no mention of rear boundary the Solicitors are not being helpful and say they are not sure!!! If you can give me some guidance I would really appreciate it. Thanks

    Reply
    • Replies to geogteacher:)>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      geogteacher - the blog article covers much of the guidance we can offer here but a few things may need emphasising
      I assume by 'no mans land' you mean an area of land which is unregistered and lying between the two properties - although unregistered it will still be owned but identifying the legal owner can be tricky. Another blog artilce offers some clues as to how to try and identify that owner
      https://hmlandregistry.blog.gov.uk/registered-unregistered-land-that-is-the-question/

      If that land is now included in your's or your neighbour's property then the claimant should look at registering that claimed ownership
      https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/adverse-possession-of-1-unregistered-land-and-2-registered-land

      And as far as boundaries are concerned resolving such matters invariably comes down to the neighbouring owners discussing and agreeing a way forward, Historical detail can help understand what the situation was in the past but that may no longer be binding and no information can lead to the boundary being viewed as a shared one.

      Reply
      • Replies to adamh>

        Comment by geogteacher:) posted on

        Many thanks. This photo shows our garden where one neighbour behinds retaining wall has been built up in their property and the land that was unregistered is on ours as a retaining bank to support the wall. There is nothing between our neighbours. The wall that's closest to the photo is the one that's on the verge of collapsing and is part of another garden. I think the there should have been a bank between us to support the land but at some point behind have built over the little bit and is now too heavy for the wall (they have a conservatory as well as a garage). My solicitor is confused which isn't helping!! Thank you

        Reply
      • Replies to adamh>

        Comment by geogteacher:) posted on

        This is the plan on the deeds.

        Reply
        • Replies to geogteacher:)>

          Comment by adamh posted on

          geoteacher - thanks for the additional information and this can help you and your neighbour decide a way forward.
          I think the key thing here is deciding what you (and your neighbour) want as an outcome and trying to achieve that. That can be very subjective and of course relies on the two of you discussing and agreeing.
          If you cannot then legal advice should be sought over what actions are planned. Trying to unravel what happened in the past is not always possible especially where properties have been sold/bought a few times.
          I would assume that previous owners have created the situation you now have so it follows that you and your current neighbour have the option of changing things as well and if you can agree then all the better.

          Our PG 40 series of supplements will help re the title plan and understanding it's meaning
          https://www.gov.uk/topic/land-registration/practice-guides

          Reply
  37. Comment by fencing mad posted on

    My neighbours ' register of title' states the following:-
    3. THE Purchasers shall forthwith erect and afterwards maintain suitable fences oin each side of the land not already fences All return frontage fences erected on the land shall be close boarded and all other fences shall be either wire fences approved by the Vendors or close boarded fences or live hedges All live hedges shall be kept cut to a height not exceeding six feet.
    My solicitor confirmed that this proves the fence is theirs, but they are refusing to replace a very dilapidated fence, in fact there are a variety of different fence styles used, low close board, post and rail (both almost completely fallen down) chicken wire, and 2 x 5 foot high trellis panels.
    Can I force them to replace the fence? Is there a definition for 'suitable fence'?
    Also this may not be relevant but they 'let' their house out as short term holiday rentals and charge over a £1000 per week - they also have at least 8 other properties that the rent out, and they work - very annoying !

    Reply
    • Replies to fencing mad>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      fencing mad - you would need your solicitor to answer the two specific questions raised I'm afraid as both rely on an understanding of the law around such matters. We are largely limited to providing the registered details only.

      The 'personal' covenants you refer to are imposed by a specific deed made between specific landowners on a given date. Such covenants will often bind the 'new' owner but they may not then legally bind subsequent owners. Your solicitor should be able to explain this in more detail.

      As such these covenants can sometimes simply help neighbours to understand how such matters were agreed to be handled at a point in the past and by a previous owner. That can help understand the history but subsequent owners may have taken a different view/approach, hence the variety you now have.

      In my experience it is more a case of sharing this information and understanding with your neighbour and then agreeing a way forward. If that is not possible then you will need to rely on your legal advice as to what options are then available.

      Reply
  38. Comment by munazkhan1 posted on

    I have an issue whereby I am in the process of selling my property and the buyers solicitor has raised some concerns surrounding the boundary of my property. In my case the boundary consists of both the actual side of my premises for the first part and a wall/fence for the second part.
    The buyer has hired a company who have superimposed a plan (which I am told is very accurate) from the Ordnance Survey onto a drawing from the Land Registry (which I am sure only show general boundaries. Indeed it appears the actual edge of the building exceeds the land registry boundary by a few centimetres (equated to less than 1ft in reality).
    Firstly, how reliable is this methodology and whilst I am convinced there is no issues here having owned the property since 1988 without any issues what steps can I follow to a. convince the buyers solicitor b. with whom can I seek advise as my solicitor is no expert when it comes to plans/drawings.
    Thanks

    Reply
    • Replies to munazkhan1>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      munazkhan1 - as you state the title plan will show the general boundaries only. It does not define the exact boundary.
      The OS detail will show the physical features in place when the property was surveyed. It doe snot relate to ownership.

      No plan will show or define the exact legal boundary whether you use modern or old technology to measure/draw it.

      Our Practice Guide 40 series of supplements explains this in more detail and the buyers conveyancers should be aware of these
      https://www.gov.uk/topic/land-registration/practice-guides

      Reply
    • Replies to munazkhan1>

      Comment by Linda posted on

      Actually OS are def NOT very accurate!!! They take aerial photographs and show fences as boundaries.... so if as in my case a neighbour takes a plot 5ft d x 12ft w from an adjoining garden and places a shed on it, (as the adjoining garden is owned by elderly lady and has become overgrown) When someone purchases the top half of the garden and asks the shed to be removed, (the boundary of trees planted 60 years ago and concrete posts with wire threaded through clearly shows the previous boundary) If the owners that have taken the plot of land refuse to take down the shed and for peace the new owner of the garden erects a fence around the stolen plot into his new land, The OS flying overhead and photographing the scene decided that the fence line around the stolen plot was now the new boundary and I almost lost the same 5ft d and 33ft w across the entire back of my garden 🙁 Thankfully my title deeds showed measurements and stated my land was 153ft from curb to back boundary, as it was only 147ft to the hedge bordering my property i was able to prove that the whole 6ft thick hedge was within my boundary, and register it at LR but my neighbour has still not got his plot back 🙁

      Reply
  39. Comment by Ian posted on

    Richard - If there is a dispute/disagreement with a neighbour over the ownership or position of a boundary (or over the responsibility for the works/repairs that are required) then it is often an understanding of the law and how a court might view such matters that is crucial. That is why we would also suggest getting some independent legal advice, for example from Citizen’s advice or a legal professional such as a solicitor.

    From a registration perspective, it is important to understand what the registered title and especially the title plan are created for. The title plan for example is used to identify the registered extent and show the general boundaries only (i.e. the general, not the exact position of the boundary lines). Our guidance on boundaries and Practice Guide 40 give more detailed information - https://www.gov.uk/topic/land-registration/practice-guides and https://www.gov.uk/your-property-boundaries. But a wider understanding of the law is also crucial, which we are not able to give advice on.

    As far as the ownership of the boundary is concerned, there is no legal foundation for some of the presumptions that are often referred to, such as the belief that boundary features on a particular side are automatically owned by that property or that post and rails of a fence are necessarily on the owner's side.

    Deeds may contain wording where one owner covenants (promises) to maintain a wall or fence but such covenants do not necessarily mean that the owner concerned owns the wall or fence. If you have not already done so look at any documents your solicitor may have given you when you bought your property to see if they mention anything about boundary features.

    Your title register or your neighbour's might give information about who owns or is responsible for boundary features such as fences, walls or hedges but generally only if this information was mentioned in the title deeds sent to us when the property was first registered; or if your property was originally part of a larger piece of land or property and provision was made in the transfer from the seller to the first owner, for its ownership or responsibility.

    Sometimes registers refer to deeds as 'Copy filed'. If you want to get a copy of any such deed to see if it contains any information as to the ownership of and responsibility for a boundary feature, see https://www.gov.uk/get-information-about-property-and-land/copies-of-deeds .

    However, it is not unusual that neither your title register nor any deeds will contain any information about boundary ownership or responsibility. Even if they do, the situation may have changed. For example, new boundary features might have been built and old ones replaced and the owners at that time might have agreed who was responsible for them. So regardless of any information in the title register or in any deeds, it is probably best to consider further negotiation / mediation with your neighbour where possible and seek legal advice as I have mentioned.

    Reply
  40. Comment by RobA posted on

    Our neighbours have informed us that they have applied for a right of access by prescription over our land, we have only recently moved in to the property and haven't received any notification from the land registry. How do I go about checking if an application has been lodged or indeed granted?

    Reply
    • Replies to RobA>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      RobA - you can use our contact form to ask if an application has been submitted so we should be able to confirm receipt
      http://landregistry.custhelp.com/app/contactus_general/

      Once we have received and considered the application if it is in order then we would serve notice on any affected landowner so if you are the registered owner of the affected property then we would serve notice on the contact address supplied by you or your solicitor when you were registered

      Reply
  41. Comment by ronmanager posted on

    I have an upcoming boundary issue with my neighbour where the retaining wall between their lower garden and my raised garden is bulging and will need replacing at a cost probably running into several thousand pounds.
    I paid for a copy of the title info and plan which, in the text, refers to the infamous letter 'T' defining the walls and fences that our property is responsible for. Yet there is no T indicated on the red ringed boundary plan at all.
    We have our own fence erected in our garden on our side and the wall is only really visible from their side as it is below ground level on our side. There appears to be no way to define who is categorically supposed to pay for it. Can I get more accurate title deeds than the electronic ones that LR have already provided? And where are the original 'pink ribbon' deeds kept?

    Reply
    • Replies to ronmanager>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      ronmanager - the title plan won't show the T marks so the entry that refers should either have a NOTE at the end which explains the affected boundaries or states that the plan is filed.

      It is important to read the article and understand the relevance of such markings as well here as other information/details can still come into play in discussing and agreeing a way forward.

      Another blog deals with questions on original deeds
      https://hmlandregistry.blog.gov.uk/?s=deeds

      Reply
      • Replies to adamh>

        Comment by ronmanager posted on

        OK it says this:

        1. FENCES The Purchasers are forthwith to make and afterwards to maintain good and sufficient fences next the roads and on the side of Lot 18 where marked T within the boundary. No fence shall be erected more than 4 feet 6 inches high in front of the Building Lines or more than 6 feet high or less than 5 feet high behind the Building Lines.
        It then says:

        NOTE 2: As to the paragraph numbered 1, in the schedule, the T mark does not affect the land in this title.
        So we're off the hook right?

        Reply
        • Replies to ronmanager>

          Comment by adamh posted on

          ronmanager - this simply means the T marks referred to did not affect the land in the title so they can be discounted from any discussion over boundaries re this particular extent of land

          Reply
          • Replies to adamh>

            Comment by ronmanager posted on

            Thanks for your help.

  42. Comment by Jack Martin posted on

    My boundary wall borders council land my wall like a toothed kind of pattern do I own the land my side of the wall or the furthest side of the wall?

    Reply
    • Replies to Jack Martin>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Jack - that is really between you and your neigubour (council) to agree on I'm afraid.

      We register the general boundary and the exact position of the legal boundary is really an 'invisible line' - essentially that means legal presumptions come into play re where it is so the centre line of a hedge for example
      The issue with walls are that there will also be footings as well so identifying where the legal boundary lies is a matter of discussion/agreement as mentioned

      Reply
  43. Comment by Rachel Goble posted on

    Hi, my mother has lived in her house for nearly 55 years. She is recently widowed & has dementia, & the next door neighbour of under 20 years has written her a very nasty letter threatening legal action if she doesn't pay £35,000 for land they say belongs to them along the adjoining boundary. They have sent copies of the Land Registry maps which just show coloured rectangles outlining the property but no measurements. No fences/hedges have ever been moved by my parents. The neighbours have given her 7 days to comply & told her not to communicate verbally with them. As her daughter, I do not get LPA for another 3 weeks & feel very vulnerable & threatened. Any ideas on how to tackle this problem would be very welcome.

    Reply
    • Replies to Rachel Goble>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Rachel - I am very sorry to read of your current difficulties but I'm afraid it is really legal advice you will need here, particularly as they are threatening legal action.
      If you are looking for wider online advice then you may wish to try online forums such as Money Saving Expert where others do comment/share thoughts which may prove helpful.
      However I would strongly recommend seeking legal advice at this stage, especially with regards any impact the LPA may have on the position

      Reply
      • Replies to adamh>

        Comment by Rachel Goble posted on

        Thanks, adamh, we are looking into getting legal advice. The envelope containing the letter was addressed to my Mother only, so they know Dad has passed. It makes me seethe with anger to know these people are bullying an old lady who is so recently widowed for a strip of land that they lost by erecting their own fence!!

        Reply
  44. Comment by Mike Armistead posted on

    I share a boundary fence that has been in place for between 6 and 10 years but my neighbour is now saying the actual party line is 1ft into our garden?
    The fence was erected before both of us moved into our houses.
    After what period does a existing boundary, even if 1ft out of place become the permanent boundary?
    Thanks for you responses

    Reply
  45. Comment by harryweekenders posted on

    I am in the process of buying a grade II listed farmhouse. I have noticed that the 6ft boundary wall between my future kitchen courtyard and my neighbour's land seems to have had its original route changed slightly at one end from that shown on the deeds. This means that I can enter the external courtyard from my kitchen and exit the courtyard through a second doorway into the rear part of the farmhouse which contains accommodation and a garage. These are the only 2 entrances/exits from the courtyard and the rear part of the farmhouse isn't accessible internally. If the wall was in its original position then the doorway from the rear accommodation would open onto my neighbours land. There are no datum points or measurements on the deeds but the deflection in the wall's original straight line and the reduced size of the neighbour's yard at that point (everything is very irregularly shaped) leads me to believe that I am correct. I think these changes could have taken place 30 years ago as the vendor has no knowledge. I don't think that either party would want to alter the boundary and would see the wall in its present form as the legal boundary however as the buyer I need a cast iron guarantee. I did pay for a drainage and water search and the O/S map they used definitely shows the wall's altered route. What are my options?

    Reply
    • Replies to harryweekenders>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      harry - all things to discuss with your solicitor I'm afraid.
      Whilst we can provide the registered information and guidance in the form of our Practice Guide 40 series of supplements re boundaries and title plans these are the sorts of issues your solicitor should advise on
      https://www.gov.uk/topic/land-registration/practice-guides

      Essentially you are querying the layout of the property/access points with the registered details/deeds. Such questions are for the seller to answer initially.
      Thereafter it is often a matter for neighbours to discuss and agree upon as appropriate but again your solicitor should be helping here

      Reply
      • Replies to adamh>

        Comment by harryweekenders posted on

        Unfortunately I am using an execution only service and the solicitor seems to be throwing things back to me for action. Even the vendor is apathetic about her responsibility. As I am happy with the property boundary as shown on the O/S map can that be registered with the title deeds as the actual boundary saving much time and effort? The O/S map would certainly satisfy all the requirements of correct plan preparation.

        Reply
        • Replies to harryweekenders>

          Comment by adamh posted on

          harry - the OS detail is used to show the position of the physical features when OS surveyed. The OS map is not drawn to define the legal boundary so unfortunately it is not always a case of simply matching the registered extent with the OS detail.

          The supplements I linked you to explain this in far better detail and if you have any concerns over a mismatch re the registered extent and the reality on the ground then it is something to get wider legal advice on and/or discuss with the neighbour as mentioned.

          Reply
  46. Comment by Clancy posted on

    Hi. Moved into an estate around a year ago with open plan front gardens. Attached neighbour erected a small shin high fence at some point within the last five years before I purchased the property. It's lined up with my porch all the way up the garden but I feel this is in the incorrect place as my electric meter is actually on 'their' side of the fence. Internally my living room also goes past the fence the same distance as the meter is past it. All in all about a yard in distance. An initial chat has taken place which didn't seem positive as they feel its correct.

    I have no problems with a fence just want it in the correct place.

    Any ideas?

    Reply
    • Replies to Clancy>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Clancy - really one to resolve with the neighbour by sharing the available information and agreeing a way forward.
      5 years would not be a sufficient time period to have taken possession of the land so it's really a question of interpreting the registered extent/Transfer plans with regards what is in place and going from there.
      If you cannot agree then legal advice is the next option

      Reply
  47. Comment by Sam posted on

    Hi,

    We recently bought a property and now that we have settled in I have noticed that the fence between our neighbour and our property does not run as straight as it shows on the Land Registry Ordnance survey plan we we supplied with when we exchanged.

    The map clearly shows it should be straight, running along side the house and down the garden. But when you roll the wheelie bins down, their fence gets closer and closer to the house, at the narrowest part it is only 2ft.

    How do I find out where the physical boundary should be?

    They are putting their house up for sale now so this is something I wish to have sorted before they sell.

    Your advise would be greatly appreciated.

    Reply
    • Replies to Sam>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Sam - the advice we can give is all in the blog article and included links really. Our Practice Guide 40 supplement 3 may also be of interest
      https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/land-registry-plans-boundaries

      The title plan is just part of the information used to help try and identify the position of the legal boundary. Where the fencing is situated and for how long can also have a bearing along with of course each neighbour's understanding of the position and how it was arrived at.
      If after reading the guidance/blog you are uncertain as to how to resolve it with your neighbour then I would recommend seeking legal advice/assistance
      If you are looking for wider comment/understanding then you could also try online forums such as Garden Law or Money Saving Expert where such matters are often discussed and commented on

      Reply
  48. Comment by MrC posted on

    Hi. I own a semi detached house which has a mature hedge down the boundary line between the two properties, the hedge is on the boundary and acts as the boundary, there is no fencing either side. My neighbour has recently approached us to say they are going to remove the hedge and replace with a wall. I am not sure but believe this is a shared boundary hedge and that they cannot own the hedge. Can you help to advise what our position may be with respect to if we are able to say that we do not agree for them to proceed with these changes as it is a shared boundary hedge?

    Reply
    • Replies to MrC>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      MrC - such matters are invariably between neighbours so if you are trying to establish your rights/legal position then I would recommend contacting a conveyancer

      Online forums such as Garden Law and Money Saving Expert can also be useful sources of information/comment as such matters are often discussed by the participants

      Reply
  49. Comment by Adam Burgess-Hall posted on

    My deeds say my garden should be bigger than it is. Can I take extra garden from the field behind? Builders are currently excavating the field to build on
    Thanks

    Adam

    Reply
    • Replies to Adam Burgess-Hall>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Adam - land can be occupied and claimed but the law around such claims is very complex so I would recommend seeking legal advice
      If you are looking for wider advice then try online forums such as Garden Law where such advice is often given/commented on

      Reply
  50. Comment by Ian posted on

    Andrew - Please use our contact form - http://landregistry.custhelp.com/app/contactus_general/ to give the property details so that we can look into this and get back to you to clarify the position as a far as we are concerned.

    Reply
  51. Comment by richmcdonald posted on

    the council put up a border between 2 terraced houses. one house is sold and a wall is built inside the fence, 30 years on the other house is sold, it appears that the council fence was not between the party walls. the wall is within the party line of the 2nd house. who owns the wall?

    Reply
    • Replies to richmcdonald>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Richmcdonald - one for the neighbouring owners to discuss and agree upon I suspect. The registered details may help if the fencing/wall is mentioned but otherwise it's usually a matter between neighbours.

      As a rule of thumb if there are no details as to who owns the fence/wall then they are usually deemed to be party fences/walls

      Reply
  52. Comment by Ian posted on

    T markings or specific references to fencing can help to understand what was expected to happen in the past but not every property would refer. What previous owners have or have not done can help understand what has gone before as well.

    But ultimately, if the properties are 'old' and have changed hands a number of times over the years, it is simply a case of discussing and agreeing what happens next

    Reply
  53. Comment by Ian posted on

    As mentioned in the blog, even if there was explicit reference to ownership of the boundary in the deeds, this would only really be of assistance to you in you reaching an agreement with your neighbour. The fact that you erected the fence also adds to your case, but in terms of the legal position there are no definite rules or presumptions that can be applied in every case.

    Ultimately if a resolution cannot be reached with our without the assistance of professional advice, such as from a surveyor, then the matter may need to be decided in other jurisdictions, for example, the courts.

    Reply
  54. Comment by Jacques posted on

    Hi everyone, I have a bit of a query I hope someone may be able to assist with.
    When I purchased my property, the vendor agreed with next door neighbour to re-align the fence granting him a small parcel of land. This was registered with the land registry at the time. However, the land was leasehold on both sides and therefore not the property of the vendor. The leasehold management company was never consulted at the time. I have since purchased the freehold of my property and this is how it all came to light. Is this re-alignment legal or do I technically still own the parcel of land?

    Reply
    • Replies to Jacques>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Jacques - you also raised this on our oniine forum and we have answered it there.
      Whilst the blog and indeed forum include comments/posts by numerous people it is very rare for anyone other than ourselves to comment directly on someone else's post/comment I'm afraid

      Reply
  55. Comment by Paul Wells posted on

    If i own the boundary to my right from the street which is not in dispute. However my neighbour states becuase he paid towards the physical femce on my boundary prior to me being owner. that physical wood the on my boundary is his and as a result I cant touch it even though the boundary is mine.

    Reply
    • Replies to Paul Wells>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Paul - being responsible for a particular boundary and owning the actual materials are two different things and often the subject of some debate between neighbours.
      Any disputes of this nature are invariably only resolved between the actual neighbours. If you cannot do that then it is legal advice you would need both with regards both the ownership and the issue of what rights you may each have to remove/change the actual fence

      If you are looking for wider advice and comment then you may find online forums such as Garden Law a useful resource as such matters are often discussed.

      Reply
  56. Comment by Ian posted on

    Sandy - Hi. As explained in the blog, Land Registry's title plans show 'general' boundaries which means that the exact position of the legal boundary is left undefined. As appears to be the case here, it will also not take account of changes to the position of the boundary on the ground unless an application is made to us. The conveyancing property deeds and planning docs may assist but determining the position of the legal boundary, for example, for the purpose of meeting the requirement you have referred to, may not be straightforward, even with the advice of professional, such as a surveyor.

    Even if it is, any re-positioning of the physical boundary is still likely to need the agreement of your neighbour, otherwise you may be involved in a dispute. In that situation, we'd suggest getting some further independent legal advice on the options open to you. Ultimately, these matters may have to be decided in other jurisdictions such as the courts, but this can be an expensive option for all parties.

    Reply
  57. Comment by Rosier eyes posted on

    We are in the midst of an adverse possession case where we have use the land for 16 years thinking it was ours , but the council tenants in the house with the adjacent land have ripped down our 16 yr fence as they say they want to buy their council house and it's their land !! Help

    Reply
    • Replies to Rosier eyes>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Rosier eyes- I am afraid it is legal advice you need here to understand your rights (and theirs perhaps) and what options you have here. We supply the registered details only and cannot offer advice on how to resolve such matters

      Reply
  58. Comment by Rosier eyes posted on

    Thanks very much ,
    is there anyway where you can point me to free 30 min legal advice

    Reply
    • Replies to Rosier eyes>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Rosier eyes - such referrals are done through your local Citizens Advice Bureau so I would search online for and contact them

      Reply
  59. Comment by Ricky Walker posted on

    What document do I need to obtain to find out the measurement of my boundary? I've looked on land registry to see what document but I am unsure which one I need to purchase. I have a boundary map on my deeds but I suspect that the boundary has been moved for gain of access for my neighbour and going by the lines shown and roughly work out I'm missing nearly 8square metres of land. The documents are quite expensive and want to make sure I'm buying the correct one.

    Reply
    • Replies to Ricky Walker>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Ricky - the title plan will not provide you with measurements I'm afraid although it is drawn to a scale. It will show you the general boundaries only although 8 sq ms is a large area so you should be able to confirm whether the land is included and/or registered separately.

      A title plan costs £3 to download but I would recommend reading our Practice Guide 40 supplements 3 and 5 to understand how plans/title plans are used to define boundaries
      https://www.gov.uk/topic/land-registration/practice-guides

      Reply
  60. Comment by Diane posted on

    Hello could you please help me I would like to know where I can find the correct measurements of my property as my neighbour have decided to move there fence into my garden?
    Many thanks
    Miss Walters

    Reply
    • Replies to Diane>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Diane - the registered details may assist although finding a plan with measurements is not always possible. As the blog explains it is often a case of neighbours discussing things and sharing information and then deciding a way forward.
      Our Practice Guide 40 series will explain what information is available and how it may assist to resolve such things providing neighbours can agree. If you can't agree then it's legal advice you need
      https://www.gov.uk/topic/land-registration/practice-guides

      Reply
  61. Comment by Jenny posted on

    Hi I've got a question. Our house backs onto a farmers field. It's at the back of a housing estate with a number of fields around it.there are some talks about potential building on a couple of these fields. Although not the one behind our house at the moment, it has been mentioned that an access road may be put across the back of our gardens (if the farmer is agreeable to a sale of course). It would be a full size road with pavements. I'm concerned that this will infringe on our privacy and create noise and pollution in our back garden from car fumes and pedestrians eg looking into your garden, litter being thrown over the fence and anti social behaviour as the road would be away from the main roads and a place where kids would easily be able to hang around. Does anyone know if this would be feasible? There would be a long stretch of houses affected by this, at least 50. Thanks

    Reply
    • Replies to Jenny>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Jenny - this is not something we can advise on I'm afraid and whilst this is a blog and others are free to comment it is not a forum and as such very few comments receive a response, other than from ourselves of course.

      If you are looking forr wider/public forum advice then I would suggest online forums such as Money Saving Expert and Garden Law where such matters are often aired and discussed

      Reply
  62. Comment by Wayne posted on

    Hi im buying a house with sheard drive we have dèeds saying half is ares and we wont to put fence up to seperat the two as i have a littel girl two thay have a few dogs and thay just do there stuff all over the grass and throw all the trees thay cut down on my side and thay are rentting nezt door can i put a fence up and put it more on to my land so thay cant say nuthing the drive is only bigg anuff for one car to drive down at a time can you hrlp please

    Reply
    • Replies to Wayne>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Wayne - we can't tell you what you can or cannot do so its your solicitor you need to speak to. If you are looking for wider online advice then try public forums such as Garden Law where such matters are often discussed

      Reply
  63. Comment by Jon posted on

    My neighbour is using the fence which separates our gardens as a support for his shed roof , a result of this means that 20cm of his roof overlaps into my garden and is a complete eye sore . I was just wondering where I stand with this not only to I want to re claim the 20cm I also want to rid of the eyesore !

    Reply
    • Replies to Jon>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Jon - it's legal advice you need here or try online forums such as Garden Law
      We can provide the registered information but that won't usually help here and we can't provide legal advice

      Reply
    • Replies to Jon>

      Comment by JamieK posted on

      Jon - A long as the maxium height of the shed is under 8 foot, I think its fine, even if its a eye sore. As for the 20cm of shed roof, you have every right to get that removed/cut back. Just wonder if its worth it unless your planning on using that 20cm. Just enjoy life too many people falling out over litterly cm's.

      Reply
  64. Comment by JudyL posted on

    We bought a new house in 2014 which has a small ditch at end of garden. The other side of the ditch is the fence to our neighbours plot with a row of trees on their land. When land registry came to confirm our plot they stated that we would only own up to the ditch. As the ditch dirt was on the other side meant this land and ditch was owned by our neighbours. However, our neighbours plot shows the fence as its boundary which leaves the ditch as 'no mans land' between both plots. They have stated they do not want the land even if it should be their property. Would like to get this finalised but reluctant to get a solicitor involved as it will be expensive. Is there anyway we can get the plot re-assessed if our neighbours put in writing that they do not want or own this land?

    Reply
  65. Comment by pghprasad posted on

    Would it be fair to assume that in a common wall situation with neighbors in a adjoining property, the boundary of respective property would be right in the middle of the common wall. I have a situation where the neighbors are claiming that our boundary starts at the end of the common wall instead of middle of the common wall. This is leading to losing a patch of land along the driveway. I thought common sense would determine that legal lines of boundaries cut into the middle of the common wall and the same line would extend until the end of the property in length. hope my query is clear enough !

    Reply
    • Replies to pghprasad>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      pghprasad - there are a variety of legal assumptions made re boundaries. See section 11 of our Practice Guide on boundaries
      https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/land-registry-plans-boundaries
      However these do not relate to 'common walls' so I would recommend that you seek legal advice to ascertain the likely legal position.
      The alternative is to try online forums such as Garden Law where such matters are often discussed and views shared

      Reply
  66. Comment by adamh posted on

    Neil - our online guidance explains how to transfer part of a title using form TP1. https://www.gov.uk/registering-land-or-property-with-land-registry/transfer-ownership-of-your-property
    If their property is mortgaged then their lender will need to be made aware/consent and they may insist on their using a solicitor

    Reply
    • Replies to adamh>

      Comment by Neil Scutts posted on

      Thanks Adam, our property is mortgaged so will our lender need to know as well. i assume they would?

      Reply
      • Replies to Neil Scutts>

        Comment by adamh posted on

        Neil - possibly. If you are just buying it and it's going to be included in the mortgage then may just be worth asking them first so they are at least aware

        Reply
  67. Comment by Stan McArdle posted on

    I live in a downstairs flat where a portion of the rear yard is shared between myself and the flat above (there are only 2 flats in the building).
    If I wanted to approach the owners about purchasing the whole yard from them, how would I go about doing that and getting the Title Deeds changed etc? Is it an easy process or do I need to involve conveyance solicitors?
    Thanks

    Reply
  68. Comment by Rosier eyes posted on

    Can you appeal against the LR decision if you feel it is unfair

    Reply
    • Replies to Rosier eyes>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Rosier eyes - next steps, including complaint or appeals is normally explained in any final letter from us.

      Reply
  69. Comment by Rosier eyes posted on

    On form advi1 question 14 it asks for details which I felt I answered to the best of my knowledge if there is insufficient evidence according to the LR conditions I have supplied even though you are not prompted for this answer , about when the date was you found out you were in adverse possession , surely just by applying for AP you now know you are in it ? Very bizarre

    Reply
    • Replies to Rosier eyes>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Rosier eyes - that does not read like a need to appeal but a need to submit enough details/confirmation to enable your claim to be registered, if it is registerable of course.
      The law around such claims is very complex and we cannot make assumptions and/or 'improve' your application as it is reliant on the information you provide.
      If we have rejected/cancelled your application on a specific point then I would strongly recommend getting legal advice, focusing on the reason for cancellation/rejection and checking the relevant Practice Guide (4 or 5) as appropriate. https://www.gov.uk/topic/land-registration/practice-guides

      Reply
      • Replies to adamh>

        Comment by Rosier eyes posted on

        Thank you for your informative reply , it hasn't come to that yet but everything up to this point has been perfect but as you say it is complicated and it seems a shame when all the evidence is absolutely correct but due to not stating something that wasn't requested on form yet proved in other ways due to factual evidence it may be rejected

        Reply
        • Replies to Rosier eyes>

          Comment by adamh posted on

          Rosier eyes - you appear to be posting comments on various blog articles. Would it be ok to stick to one Blog article or perhaps easier to submit the specific details to us at customer.service@landregistry.gov.uk so we can match it with your original application and ask someone to reply by email to your concerns?
          I have removed your comment from the 'Resolving complaints, achieving change' article as a result

          Reply
          • Replies to adamh>

            Comment by Rosier eyes posted on

            Sorry had no idea , can you send me a link where I have to post please

          • Replies to Rosier eyes>

            Comment by adamh posted on

            Rosier eyes - use the email address and we can take a look and advise

  70. Comment by Adele Baguley posted on

    Hi, I have a dispute over trees. The deeds show the boundary belongs to me but the trees trunks look as though they would be split down the middle. I would like all trees removed but my neighbour would like to salvage two of them.
    I have been reading the deeds and there is the following statement "At all times hereafter to maintain a good and sufficient boundary wall fence or quick set hedge on the sides of the property marked with a 'T' inwards on the said plan and not to erect any wall fence or hedge on the road frontage or in advance of the building line exceeding a height of one foot" - So I understand that I'm not able to put up a fence in the front garden but would this statement also apply to the trees? Surely if I'm not able to have a fence or hedge higher than one foot then the same would apply to trees?

    Thanks

    Reply
    • Replies to Adele Baguley>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Adele - unlikely to relate to the trees and I assume the trees were much smaller when the property was built and sold by the developer who often imposes such covenants
      Such matters are invariably only resolved between neighbours especially if the trees form part of the boundary
      If there's an issue/dispute then the best bet is to get legal advice
      If you are looking for wider online advice then online forums such as Garden Law can be useful resources although no neighbours and no properties are the same

      Reply
  71. Comment by KitCat posted on

    Hello, how much does it cost to establish which fence belongs to which neighbour?

    Reply
    • Replies to KitCat>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      KitCat - as such things are often discussed and agreed upon between neighbours the costs (if any) will vary.
      Have a read of the blog article and linked guidance which explains how various pieces of information and understanding can be involved in agreeing on such matters

      Reply
  72. Comment by adamh posted on

    JA1 - all a question of whet here the right of access/way is registered or not. If it is and it's been changed then making it 'legal' would mean each affected party entering into a legal deed to vary or extinguish the existing right and grant a new one
    If not registered then there may be little to do unless you want to formalise the right. If you do then a legal deed is the way to go

    Reply
  73. Comment by Justin Tyler posted on

    I want to register a deed of release of a restrictive covenant against the registered title to my property. What is the process that the Land Registry follows before it will register the deed?

    Reply
    • Replies to Justin Tyler>

      Comment by Ian posted on

      Justin - we will consider an application for a deed of release (usually made on application form AP1) against the requirements for registration (for example, has the deed been executed correctly and the fee paid). If all is in order, the application will be completed by registration.

      Reply
      • Replies to Ian>

        Comment by Justin Tyler posted on

        Ian, thanks for the swift reply. Are the requirements for registration listed anywhere? If so, please would you send me the link. If not, are you able to provide me with a comprehensive list? I am keen to ensure the deed of release I am seeking will be capable of registration.

        Reply
        • Replies to Justin Tyler>

          Comment by Ian posted on

          Justin - I regret there's no published guidance available specific to this application. But if you email customer.service@landregistry.gov.uk giving further details about the application and the property affected, we will then look into this and provide any assistance we can.

          That said we will not be able to approve an application in advance of it being lodged and can only give procedural advice regarding the completion of applications. If you are unsure how to proceed, you may want to consider getting some legal advice from a conveyancer, such as a solicitor.

          Reply
  74. Comment by Ian posted on

    Chris - Please see our guidance on boundaries which may be of assistance here as the position regarding where the legal boundary line lies is far from straightforward - http://bit.ly/2bllSmy .

    As mentioned in the guide, we register land with 'general boundaries' which means that the exact position of the legal boundary is left undefined. Where a physical feature such as a ditch appears to follow the line of a legal boundary, that boundary may in fact may just as easily run along one particular side of the ditch, or include all or any part of an adjoining feature such as stream.

    So ultimately, any work should be done with the agreement of the neighbour where possible. This will help to avoid any disputes arising at a later stage, which ultimately may have to be decided in other jurisdictions such as the courts. This can be an expensive option for all parties.

    Reply
  75. Comment by Ian posted on

    Chris - Please see our guidance on boundaries which may be of assistance here as the position regarding where the legal boundary line lies is far from straightforward - http://bit.ly/1MexQJ3 .

    As mentioned in the guide, we register land with 'general boundaries' which means that the exact position of the legal boundary is left undefined. Where a physical feature such as a ditch appears to follow the line of a legal boundary, that boundary may in fact may just as easily run along one particular side of the ditch, or include all or any part of an adjoining feature such as stream.

    So ultimately, any work should be done with the agreement of the neighbour where possible. This will help to avoid any disputes arising at a later stage, which ultimately may have to be decided in other jurisdictions such as the courts. This can be an expensive option for all parties.

    Reply
  76. Comment by adamh posted on

    Tracy - it's legal advice you will need to understand where you (and the neighbour) stand
    Issues such as this can arise where additional features are erected within boundaries and invariably need to be resolved by the neighbours themselves to understand the history behind the changes for example. As you appreciate neighbours can change so such understanding can be lost and assumptions made.
    If you are looking for wider online comment then forums such as Garden Law can be useful resources as well

    Reply
    • Replies to adamh>

      Comment by Tracy Mills posted on

      Thank you for your reply. The plans on my deeds are quite specific, the plan outlines the boundaries to my property, including measurements within the boundary. The fence and a wall were built by the previous owner when his mother owned both properties. He reduced the land belonging to my property quite significantly post 2006 when he bought one part of the property from his mother and the neighbours bought the other adjoining property. However when asked by my solicitor when I purchased the property, was he aware if the boundary has ever been moved he claimed it had not! The neighbours property is now up for sale, and the other boundary belonging to another neighbour, where the wall was built, (reducing the length of my land by approximately 1 meter by 9 meters) is now applying for planning permission for a small development. I can't afford a lengthy legal battle as the attitude of both neighbours is "possession is 90% of the law" and I foresee I could quite possibly be the loser.

      Reply
      • Replies to Tracy Mills>

        Comment by adamh posted on

        Tracy - legal action is a last resort and as you appreciate something to be avoided.
        I would suggest posting the details on Garden Law as they may be able to offer wider advice. If you prefer not to then researching the previous threads may reveal some ideas of how to approach the issue without the need for legal action

        Reply
  77. Comment by CathyOne posted on

    Just before we bought our house our neighbour paved over most of our sideway - leaving us a 6 inch strip - claiming they had had use of it from the previous owners for 7+ years. They have fenced off the end of this "strip", where it leads into the back garden, incorporating it into their garden. A locked gate has been erected across both sideways near to the front garden, attached to our wall (permission was not requested), which prevents us from accessing part of our "strip". When they sell, will we have any rights over our "strip"? Discussion & negotiation is impossible as they are threatening & very aggressive. Thank you.

    Reply
    • Replies to CathyOne>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      CathyOne - it's legal advice you will need to understand what rights you (or they) may have here. I am afraid we can only provide the registered details and refer you to the guidance linked to from the blog article itself.
      If you are looking for wider advice then I would suggest online forums such as Garden Law where such matters are often aired and discussed

      Reply
  78. Comment by Lynne Edmondson posted on

    Our house was extended before we bought it and the extention is built
    partly over access land. There is still a path at the side that gives
    access to the wall that is now between the properties.The access was
    only because there were originally two outside loos at the end of the
    neighbour's patio and it was to access these. These are no longer there.
    However, the neighbour keeps threatening that she could make us put a
    door in our kitchen as she has a right to walk through it. Is this
    correct please?

    Reply
    • Replies to Lynne Edmondson>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Lynne - it's legal advice you need, Rights don't simply disappear or change if built on for example so worth exploring what legal options you have to resolve this

      Reply
  79. Comment by Ian posted on

    Jason - This is essentially a legal issue on which we'd suggest getting some independent advice from a conveyancer, such as a solicitor. Land Registry has an administrative role and our title plans show 'general' boundaries which means that the exact position of the legal boundary is left undefined and it will also not take account of, or clarify, whether there have been any changes to the position of the boundary on the ground as appears to be the case here.

    A number of issues may come into play here, possibly including any legal right that your neighbour's property may have to use the accessway and adverse possession (commonly referred to as 'squatter's rights') which involves gaining title to land through possession rather than by holding title deeds. These are complex areas of the law and where disputes arise, these matters may have to be decided in other jurisdictions such as the courts, which can be an expensive option for all parties.

    Reply
    • Replies to Ian>

      Comment by Jason forway posted on

      I have taken advice from a chartered surveyor and he has said as long as my neighbour puts his gate back and I take out my half fence panel on my right hand side giving them access to the alley way way.
      They can use the back of my garden as a right of way to the alley.

      Reply
      • Replies to Jason forway>

        Comment by Jason forway posted on

        Could someone please get back to me, regarding my last comment

        Reply
        • Replies to Jason forway>

          Comment by adamh posted on

          Jason - apologies but we read your post as simply a comment. It did not pose a question? If you are looking for advice re the surveyor's suggestion then it's legal advice you need and we cannot provide that. If you are looking for wider advice then forums such as Garden Law can be useful resources

          Reply
  80. Comment by Rob posted on

    Hi ,I'm buying a house which has a garage at the back of the garden which belongs to the house but is not shown on land registry plan ....the garage is accessed by a gully which is gated and shared by neighbors who also have garages ...there is no dispute over this garage but I would like it put into the boundary line and can't see why it wasn't in the first place .....?

    Reply
    • Replies to Rob>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Rob - something to query with the seller before buying. If they don't have title to it then you need to confirm what details they have to prove they are the owner and are then able to sell. If it was not included when the property was registered then they may also be able to advise why - sometimes poor conveyancing can cause such things to happen or it may never have been included but they have used it for a number of years. First thing to do is to ask them though

      Reply
      • Replies to adamh>

        Comment by Rob posted on

        Thanks for your reply ....the sellers have provided deeds and paperwork to solicitors and even though they had no problem when they bought about ten years ago can't believe that this has become a problem ...everything has been on hold for the last month trying to sort this so they've agreed to an indemnity so we can get on and maybe I can sort it out at a later date ...so I'll probably get back to you when I find out more ,many thanks again Rob

        Reply
        • Replies to Rob>

          Comment by adamh posted on

          Rob - that's fine. These things are often very dependent on the parties involved and the conveyancing. Lots can vary and often depends on what is 'picked up' and/or how such risks are viewed

          Reply
  81. Comment by NimishP posted on

    Jax - this is a question you need to ask your solicitors. It would very much depend on what was agreed between you and the neighbours and if it was formalised in some manner.

    Reply
  82. Comment by adamh posted on

    Paul - the law is complex re such claims but the registration process can be quite straightforward providing the necessary details are provided. Our PGs 4 and 5 explain what we would require but your solicitor will be aware of the law so do rely on them for guidance
    https://www.gov.uk/topic/land-registration/practice-guides

    Reply
  83. Comment by adamh posted on

    Scott - the blog and this article explain how such matters often rely on neighbours discussing and sharing any information and then agreeing a way forward https://hmlandregistry.blog.gov.uk/boundary-questions-answered/

    Reply
  84. Comment by Nicola posted on

    Hi, i am currently in a dispute with my neighbour. They are claiming that we have 8 inches of there land and they want it back to build a garage. We moved into our property 11 years ago (neighbour moved in 6 years ago) and erected a fence along the boundary between the two properties that was already there marked out by stones. It looks as though from measurements that he is short of the length it says on his deeds but as are we. He is also threatening to rip down the fence that we bought and paid for as he says he is entitled to as it's on his land.

    Firstly can he rip down our fence? and secondly,as the boundary has been marked like this for 11 years plus where do we stand?

    Thanks

    Reply
  85. Comment by INGRIDm posted on

    Hi I'm trying to establish whether an 11in strip of pavement along the side of our house is our property (as per the original 1899 5 house plot plan) or belongs to the council ie been adopted under general boundary rule. My title register has no note of boundary change - is it worthwhile trying to investigate any historic deeds?

    We want to install a land drain and external insulation so this strip would be very useful!

    Reply
    • Replies to INGRIDm>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Ingridm - historical deeds can sometimes contain better scaled plans and/or measurements although in my experience such a small distance is unlikely to be clear when the plans/measurements (if any) are considered.
      In such cases it is often a matter between neighbours, namely to discuss and agree where the boundary lies and as such how any works might be completed

      Reply
  86. Comment by adamh posted on

    Ingrid - that's fine and can all be added to the mix. A plan is the drawer's interpretation of things at a moment in time and as you appreciate buildings, fences etc can move/change over time. If you can speak to the council and agree a way forward that suits you both then that's the best way to go about it. If you think there might be an issue then it's legal advice you really need

    Reply
  87. Comment by adamh posted on

    We cannot advise on where the legal boundary is I'm afraid so it is a case of neighbouring owners to share information and agree a way forward. A few things to discuss would be how the fence/hedge situation arose - neighbours will some times plant a hedge or put a fence up their side of the original feature as they 'didn't like' the fence/hedge already there
    2m is a sizeable distance so asking the neighbour as to the basis of their understanding is advisable especially if 2m the other side of the hedge? Is that an opening gambit so that you both agree the hedge is the boundary perhaps? - no idea of course but something to perhaps consider
    Inward facing T marks tend to be the indicator often used regarding responsibility for a boundary feature. They go hand in hand with any covenants in the deed. Over time they may be no longer binding if the ownership of the properties have changed but they can still aid any discussions/understanding
    The same advice applies to the second example - discuss and agree.
    If you are looking for wider advice then forums such as Garden Law can be useful resources as they include other real life examples. However every property and neighbour are unique so you will always come back to the uniqueness of your own circumstances

    Reply
    • Replies to adamh>

      Comment by disqus_NgN6UosWGd posted on

      Thanks Adam. This is impartial, practical and very helpful.

      I have just returned from 30 years in Canada. It seems property law there may have learnt a few things from the "old country". Where there is a property boundary, it is mapped as the legal boundary in all documents, staked with iron pins on the ground by a surveyor and those pins marked with white stakes, generally. That way the registered, legal and practical boundaries are the same line. Boundary disputes are therefore not a lucrative source of business for Canadian lawyers! Good fences make good neighbours. 😉 Cheers.

      Reply
      • Replies to disqus_NgN6UosWGd>

        Comment by adamh posted on

        Land law here has a longer history perhaps and it's origins can be traced back to the Domesday Book to some extent. Legal boundaries here have always been invisible lines and from a conveyancing perspective largely reliant on hand drawn plans in deeds dating back many decades. In most cases there are no issues but the law will invariably expect neighbours to sort such things for themselves as neighbours change in the same way as boundary features do, the fence + hedge scenario being a fine example. So whilst a few examples may find their way into a lawyer's office or indeed the court the latter take a dim view of such cases being brought before them whilst a lawyer can advise and recommend next steps. In my experience the money is best spent on resolving the issue between yourselves even if only on a cup of tea and cake. The key tends to be covering off the shared understanding and of course, and this is often the key, why the neighbour wants the situation to be as he/she describes.

        Reply
        • Replies to adamh>

          Comment by disqus_NgN6UosWGd posted on

          Thanks again, Adam. We also have an issue with our vendor's placing of her father's grave on the property. She inherited the property from him. Sadly, due to the misrepresentations and possibly fraudulent exchanges that have occurred between our vendor and ourselves, as well as between ourselves and our new neighbours (her very close friends), we would like to understand how we can move the grave off our land.

          Reply
          • Replies to disqus_NgN6UosWGd>

            Comment by adamh posted on

            Not something we can advise on I'm afraid so either legal advice around the issue of home burial or try online forums such as Garden Law where such matters can be discussed

  88. Comment by Alex Fernihough posted on

    Hi, not sure this is the right section but worth an ask.

    I own number 23 shown here with my front and back garden in blue. As you can see my neighbour owns the strip of land in red that is in front of my out buildings. Myself and neighbour are happy for me to purchase the strip of land in red but unsure how to legally transfer the ownership to me and re-draw both of our boundaries. Any help would be appreciated, we would rather not use a solicitor due to the value of the land being minimal and both of us happy for the change of boundary to take place. The size of the strip is about 1m wide x 5m long so probably a little too big to informally transfer ownership as the plans do show the join in the front gardens as not being in line with the edge of my outbuildings.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/9af9267df8bf21131789d3c6a5edb2785b07bf09d13124dba30898646dc1368b.jpg

    Reply
  89. Comment by Anthony posted on

    We own an upstairs maisonette and our neighbour owns and lives in the

    downstairs flat.
    Our neighbours bedrooms and bathroom extend out at the rear of the property and we have access across her roof to our access steps down to our back garden and garage.
    Our neighbour also has two outhouses at the rear and she wants to demolish these and extend her bedroom to include an on-suite bathroom,for which planning permission has been granted.
    In the building works she intends to demolish our steps and rebuild them in a slightly different position which means they will be inside her building boundary.
    We don't have any issue with her plan, but our question is, do we and our neighbour,need legally, to have the building deeds changed to reflect the boundary changes to avoid any future problems if either we or our neighbour decide to sell our properties.

    Reply
    • Replies to Anthony>

      Comment by Ian posted on

      It's difficult to answer this in general terms as a lot depends on the detail. For example, if the steps are inside their boundary there may be plans to grant you a right of access over that area rather than change extent of the land that you or they own.

      As to the impact of the planning decision, I should explain that our registration of land and of ownership and interests in land has no relevance to the regulations and processes concerning planning.

      Ultimately you may want to consider getting some independent legal advice from Citizen's Advice or a solicitor such as a conveyancer.

      Reply
  90. Comment by Carole posted on

    what happens if there is an error on a transfer plan which was not picked up when registration took place originally (eg missing brown line identifying rights of way) ?

    Reply
  91. Comment by Carole posted on

    I have tried that and am told that you agree it is wrong but cant do anything about it. I disagree. If it wasnt picked up at the time surely there is an obligation to sort. This will cause difficulty on sale i believe.? (Thank you for your prompt response) 🙂

    Reply
    • Replies to Carole>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Carole - the response and guidance provided in response to your original enquiry would be the one to follow/respond to as appropriate. Our blogs tend to only receive replies from us, Land registry, as well so if you disagree or feel that something extra should be done then it might be something to seek legal advice on if we have said we cannot do anything about it. A conveyancer should be able to advise you on whether it is likely to be an issue on sale for example and if so what options are available to you to perhaps minimalise any such issue

      Reply
  92. Comment by Julie Jeffery posted on

    I am currently trying to challenge a refused planning application on my property where one of the points they advise is that the extended fence is on land not owned by me but by the developers. I have a copy of the original title deeds that show the red line around the property boundary, which I am sure I have kept within, but they say I haven't. The council have done a search with the land registry. What search would this have been to show the owner of the land behind my house and how do I obtain a copy myself if possible? Thanks

    Reply
    • Replies to Julie Jeffery>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Julie - I imagine they have done a search of the index map to establish which titles are affected. You can apply for a SIM by post https://www.gov.uk/get-information-about-property-and-land/search-the-index-map
      May be worth asking them for confirmation/evidence first though

      Reply
      • Replies to adamh>

        Comment by Julie Jeffery posted on

        Hi and thanks for the reply. I've asked them for a copy of the land registry search she refers to and have also sent her a copy of the attached plan with my added notes that came with the title deeds from the developers. (hope thats ok to upload)
        https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/8fe7d2a259f6ed4d3347db398881373fc67a7c902a7ddda096d4f71c15411b78.jpg

        The planning officer also states a reason that the fence is not in keeping with that around, but it is exactly the same construction as the original and my neighbours. Also that the (pre)existing trees/hedgerow removal would be detrimental to wildlife, but this was only removed because it was rotten at the base and potentially a danger to pedestrians. I also did state right at the beginning I had the intention (and indeed have quotes from garden nuseries) of reestabilishing the hedgerow as I was very upset it had to be removed and wanted it for the wildlife it encourages.
        Sorry I digress, that's not part of the land registry !
        Thanks for your comments

        Reply
        • Replies to Julie Jeffery>

          Comment by adamh posted on

          Julie - the plan appears to be a copy of the one used by the developer to depict the site/plot and then used as part of the Transfer deed to the first buyer. I doubt if there is anything we can usefully add to the mix on this and it will be very much something to try and resolve with the planning department concerned.

          Reply
  93. Comment by adamh posted on

    Martin - something to get legal advice on. Our PGs 4 5 explain the registration requirements but it's understanding what you have done over time and whether that is enough to support a claim that you need here. https://www.gov.uk/topic/land-registration/practice-guides

    Reply
    • Replies to adamh>

      Comment by Martin Filbert posted on

      Thanks for the response Adam, I'll consult a solicitor with this matter. Was hoping maybe somebody here would have encountered similar problem and had achieved resolution. Here's hoping......

      Reply
      • Replies to Martin Filbert>

        Comment by adamh posted on

        Martin - understood. However in my experience our blog is not one which invites repeat experiences/sharing. Online forums are a better resource for such things as posters are often willing to share such experiences. Here it is more Q&A

        Reply
  94. Comment by Pat Reynolds posted on

    I apologise if this question has already been asked and answered.
    I believe the move from individual websites for institutions to the 'gov.uk' website has made it far harder for citizens to find answer to simple questions such as mine, as searching for 'response time' on gov.uk is clearly a fools errand. Thank goodness you are providing this work-around.
    My question is: what is a typical response time from submission of a boundary change form AP1 (by response, I don't mean acknowledgement of receipt of form AP1, I mean either change of the register to reflect the form contents, or notification that more information is needed or the change will not be registered for some reason).

    Reply
    • Replies to Pat Reynolds>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Pat - much depends on what you mean by a 'boundary change'. What is the basis of the change. A legal deed/agreement or are you simply suggesting the boundary is wrong and needs amending?
      Timescales will vary considerably depending on both whether the land/property is registered or not and the type of application. It may seem a simple question at times but with land registration it's the specifics that matter so it is very difficult to generalise on timescales I'm afraid

      Reply
      • Replies to adamh>

        Comment by Pat Reynolds posted on

        Thanks, Adam - The two properties semi-detached properties involved are already registered, but the boundary between them is wrong. We are changing the deeds to reflect reality.

        Reply
        • Replies to Pat Reynolds>

          Comment by adamh posted on

          Pat - many thanks for confirming but can I ask how you are changing the deeds to reflect the reality? Is it a determined boundary applicaiton; a transfer/exchange of ownership; or a boundary agreement perhaps?

          Reply
          • Replies to adamh>

            Comment by Pat Reynolds posted on

            Hello Adam, it's a boundary agreement plus associated rights of access into each-others properties (in essence, to acknowledge the existence of a flying freehold and a dogleg party wall, when the existing deeds do neither)

          • Replies to Pat Reynolds>

            Comment by adamh posted on

            Pat - thank you. It reads like a complex deed/agreement so from purely a timescale perspective you would probably looking at 3/4 weeks on average. Everything depends on the specific details involved as well so if the application is defective in some way this can result in delays whilst we wait for the defects to be resolved. The devil is always in the detail re such matters so there is no simple answer

          • Replies to adamh>

            Comment by Pat Reynolds posted on

            Thanks, Adam. That's very helpful, as it gives a good basic estimate and the caution that this may be longer - just the advice I needed.

  95. Comment by Dan Adkins posted on

    I have obtained the register for my property along with both neighbours. In mine, and the adjoining house it states in the covenant {3 points in total} that:
    (1) Forever thereafter to maintain a good and sufficient stock proof fence along the body marked T on the Plan annexed thereto
    But then states:
    NOTE: No T marks affects the land in this title
    Then in the neighbour not attached (where the fence dispute lies) register, it
    only shows 2 points of the covent as identical to ours however makes no mention of boundaries? The houses were all built at the same time by the same builder in 1958. Could you advise?
    Many thanks Amy

    Reply
    • Replies to Dan Adkins>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Dan - two different ways of capturing the same details but bottom line is that covenant did not affect so in one case the Note confirms that and in the other it does the same through leaving it off the register.
      Such covenants, even when they do effect, rarely bind owners decades later as the property has changed hands a number of times.
      If you are disputing who is responsible for a boundary then it reads as if the registered detail can be omitted from the discussion mix. It's more a case of what's happened to date plus how each of you want it to play out. If you can discuss and agree on that then hopefully you can resolve any dispure

      Reply
  96. Comment by adamh posted on

    Dan - it means that the register is silent on who is responsible. That may mean you view it as shared but much depends on how you both view and understand things. I would suggest asking the neighbour as to why he thinks it's your responsibility?

    Reply
  97. Comment by NimishP posted on

    Fiona - Land Registry title plans are meant to show the extent of the land in the title concerned. We use the latest Ordnance Survey map extract available at the time of first registration of that property, so often it will not show any structures built on the property subsequently.

    From Land Registry's perspective, your question relates to Planning matters, and while there may not be any information on the Planning website, your friend could check with the Planning Dept of the local authority concerned to see if they hold any additional records.

    Hope this is of some help.

    Reply
  98. Comment by Pidgeon posted on

    Hi,

    I am just looking to replace my rear fence. It is however not in lie with my original title deed dated 1973 and appears I have lost a portion of land. Although, if you include the shrubbery border to the other side of this fence, my land would be complete again.

    It appears that what happened was the old couple I purchased my house from simply found it easier/cheaper to place their fence in front of their shrubbery border.

    I downloaded 2 the title deeds and plans to the other side of my fence. One of those title plans dated 1968 agrees with my title plan with the borders matching up perfectly with my 1973 title plans.

    The second plan dated 2002 shows the newer boundary which is taking a portion of my land.

    This 2002 title plan accurately shows the existing line of the fence as it is in real life but what it seems to overlook is the row of shrubs on flower border in front of the fence, This flower bed is within my boundary on both the neighbours 1968 title plan & my 1973 title deeds.

    It appear that in 2002 when this piece of land was isolated off from some council land, somebody in an office made a presumption as to the fence being the boundary and not the shrubs.

    Can this be rectified?

    Reply
    • Replies to Pidgeon>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Pidgeon - deed and title plans are only part of the information relevant to trying to identify the position of the legal boundary and different plans from different times will rarely match as they show the general boundaries only.
      As such it is very unlikely we would alter either title plan as they are mapped to show the general boundaries only. If you wish to make an application then you can do so using form AP1 and supporting evidence but in my experience it is likely to fail.
      You may be better served investigating whether your neighbour agrees and is willing to allow a new fence to be placed in a new position, whereby in essence they lose part of the land they appear to have occupied for some time. Something to get legal advice on as well before tackling the suggestion

      Reply
  99. Comment by Tim Doyle posted on

    Hi,

    The fence to the right of my detached property needs replacing, however on the title / deeds for the house there is no ownership identified for whom is responsible for the fence and thus subsequent replacement costs. The next door property is a council house, can I proceed with replacing the fence and billing the council or do I have to wait to get their agreement on replacing the fence?

    Thanks

    Reply
    • Replies to Tim Doyle>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Tim - work on fences is generally best discussed and agreed with the neighbour. If you just replace and bill them you run the risk of them refusing to contribute. May be worth checking with them first

      Reply
  100. Comment by L Davidson posted on

    Hello. Within a new housing development there is a pre existing street which now only serves as the entrance to the development and the car park, with fencing all around. There is a new postcode for the whole of this development and Residents pay a management fee for the upkeep too. The street is effectively redundant and is not part of the address of the Development. However, a gate can't be placed because of the existence of this street, nor can one of the houses place an extension, or use it as a driveway. Is there a way this can be overcome?

    Reply
    • Replies to L Davidson>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      L Davidson - it's legal or wider advice you need here. We can provide the registered details but if you are looking to change things then it will probably need an understanding of the law. You could try online forums such as Garden Law or Money Saving Expert which can be useful resources

      Reply
      • Replies to adamh>

        Comment by L Davidson posted on

        Thanks Adam, appreciate that. Will head on to those forums and also look for legal advice. Thanks

        Reply
  101. Comment by adamh posted on

    Linda - such things in my experience can only be resolved between neighbours. id recommend either getting legal advice re what options you have or try online forums such as a Garden Law or Money Saving Expert where such matters are often discussed and commented on. But no property or neighbour are the same

    Reply
  102. Comment by Carol Edwards posted on

    How do we fulfill our obligations to maintain a fence that is adjacent to a railway line? If we try to get to the other side of our fence, we are 'trespassing'. Part of this fence needs replacing, so for a time there will be no fence between our garden and the line. How do we manage this?

    Reply
    • Replies to Carol Edwards>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Carol - not something we can advise you on I'm afraid. I'd suggest legal advice, contact Network Rail or try forums such as Garden Law for advice

      Reply
  103. Comment by adamh posted on

    Charlotte - this is a blog rather than a forum so oyu won't get anyone else commenting. Its not something we can advise on so if you are looking for wider advice then forums such as Money Saving Expert or Garden Law can be useful resources. But legal advice is the best option

    Reply
  104. Comment by Colne Heating posted on

    Hi Adam, I hope you can give me some advice.
    I moved into my end terraced house 3 years ago. I have a concrete shed (about 20 years old) that overhangs (about 12") the access path to neighbouring properties beyond either side of the end terraces either side of the path. My neighbours fence was not exactly in a straight line, allowing access down the path. My neighbour has now put up a new fence, reclaiming the bit of pathway & hence the path is now about 18" instead of 30". The neighbours who require access are not happy. What is the situation? It is not a council area or is the path maintained by the council.
    Thank you, Mike

    Reply
    • Replies to Colne Heating>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Colne - something you will need to discuss and resolve with the neighbours in my experience especially where distances are 'small' but the impact can be significant. The historical positioning of the fence/shed can come into play and so too any rights of access and the use others have made. But ultimately it's often a case of resolve it yourselves or take legal advice/action as appropriate.

      Online forums such as Garden Law can be useful resources but it is important to remember that the land/properties and neighbours are all unique and often it's how each views the situation that can have the greatest impact.

      If you want to check if the path is registered and who owns it then you can try to check online or by post. Whether they would wish to get involved is also relevant
      https://www.gov.uk/get-information-about-property-and-land

      Reply
  105. Comment by petra posted on

    Good afternoon

    I am writing a letter to my neighbours surveyor regarding a strip of land less than 2 foot wide that they believe I've taken from them. The fence has been where it is for over 30 years even though I have only been here for 3; the previous owner is happy to confirm this and I have photographic evidence. I have sought legal advice but don't want to shell out over £500+VAT on a letter from them but I wanted to have someone look at the letter I have written to see if they think it's ok. I thought I'd start here as you have always been very helpful and will always tell me where to go!!! Thanks Petra

    Reply
    • Replies to petra>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Petra - we can't advise you on what to write but you are right to check first as such letters can be used later as evidence if things are not resolved. I would suggest using forums such as Money Saving Expert or Garden Law if you want unpaid advice. But I would always recommend legal advice.

      If you choose to post then they will need exact details inc what the surveyor has said/written

      Reply
  106. Comment by Adam Booth posted on

    hi, we have recently purchased "half" of a piece of land from a builder, after repeatedly asking for the boundary to be marked by the builder, we were given a piece of paper with a line drawn and a scale on the paper, to which we have erected a fence, the instant a fence was put up the builder now claims it is in the wrong place, it is merely shape changing not gaining of land at all, we know this is purely to be akward as relations have broken down altogether, are we in our rights to demand the fence stays exactly where it is?

    Reply
    • Replies to Adam Booth>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Adam - it's legal advice you need here. If you are looking for wider online comment then forums such as Garden Law or Money Saving Expert can be useful resources

      Reply
  107. Comment by adamh posted on

    David - whose responsibility it is really comes down to negotation between the parties. There is no 'you must do it' rule/law as far as I am aware but your solicitor can advise you on that.

    Reply
    • Replies to adamh>

      Comment by David Burke posted on

      Thanks for that. So either way, whether it's us or them who look to resolve this, would it be a quantity surveyor that would be needed to view the cellar, redraw the floor plan and submit a request to change the land registry? It may be more complicated than that but want to know what's the first step. Thanks again

      Reply
      • Replies to David Burke>

        Comment by adamh posted on

        David - that is an option if deemed appropriate. I think a Quantity Surveyor may be more skilled in the amount of materials needed on a bhuild though?

        Reply
  108. Comment by Ian posted on

    Ann - I should firstly give details of how we show property boundaries on our plans. In law, every property has a precise legal boundary – an invisible line that separates land owned by one person from that owned by another. Sometimes this line will coincide with boundary features like a hedge, and sometimes it won’t – for example, an owner might erect a fence within the extent of their property but still own a strip of land on the other side of it. In reality, however, title deeds rarely define exactly where legal boundaries lie, even if there are plans attached to them.

    The same applies to the title plans that we prepare. The red edging shown on our plans gives a general indication only of the boundary location. This is because of the ‘General Boundaries Rule’ which means that whilst we use plans that are drawn to scale, they cannot be used to establish the precise location of legal boundaries.

    There are ways of applying to us to fix the position of a boundary more precisely, but these options will invariably require the agreement of adjoining owners.

    So the seller wouldn't usually be under an obligation to 'define' the boundary before purchase, although they may provide information to clarify who may be responsible for the maintenance of the hedge or whether responsibility is shared with the neighbour. As with any transaction, it's really something for the parties involved to discuss and resolve before entering into a binding agreement and your legal adviser should be able to assist with the legal aspects of this.

    Reply
  109. Comment by Elizabeth posted on

    My husband and I have decided to put a fence up around front of our garden to keep our son safe as we are next to the street road. We are in a mid terrace and are having issues with our neighbour who is disputing that the land which we are hoping to build a fence on is her land. I have received my house plans and deeds but it only shows a line throughout my property it doesn't actually give specific measurements of where my land stops for us to build the fence totally on our land without our neighbour saying that it's her land. The seem of her house starts after the land in question. It is only around 1foot in width. I wanted to get advice before we have to go to our solicitor.

    Reply
    • Replies to Elizabeth>

      Comment by NimishP posted on

      Elizabeth - It may be helpful if I provide some background information on position of Land Registry on boundary issues.

      The title plan is based on the Ordnance Survey map and shows the position of a property in relation to the walls, fences, roads etc. shown on that map. The red lines indicating the boundaries reflect the Ordnance Survey map and indicate the general position of the boundary fences and walls. The ‘guarantee of title’ offered by Land Registry means that no document apart from the register is needed to establish your ownership. It does not mean that Land Registry guarantees the precise amount of land you own.

      England and Wales operates a 'general boundaries' system of land registration. A title plan with 'general boundaries' shows the boundary of a property in relation to a given physical feature on the ground such as a wall or hedge as identified on the Ordnance Survey map. This is because when a property is first registered:
      • the title deeds rarely give precise legal boundaries
      • often owners do not know where they are
      • finding out the exact position of the legal boundaries at the time of registration can be expensive and may lead to unnecessary disputes.

      The physical boundary is a feature that can be seen, such as a fence, wall or a hedge. The legal boundary may follow any physical boundary structure but might just as easily run along one particular side of the fence, wall or hedge, or include all or part of any adjoining roadway or stream.

      Every property has precise legal boundaries. These are the invisible lines separating the land owned by one person from that owned by a neighbour. They may or may not coincide with the physical boundary features on the ground like fences or walls and are not shown on Ordnance Survey maps. The title deeds rarely identify the legal boundaries. The owner probably does not know where they are and having to find out their position of the legal boundaries at the time of registration of the property could be expensive and lead to unnecessary disputes.

      The red edging on a Land Registry title plan is therefore not definitive as to the precise position of the boundaries. For this reason official copies of title plans carry the following warning.

      “This title plan shows the general position of the boundaries: it does not show the exact line of the boundaries. Measurements scaled from this plan may not match measurements between the same points on the ground.”

      This is a clear statement that Land Registry is unable to tell you precisely where a property boundary is located.

      You should not rely on the Title Plan to scale any measurements that might be stated in your Title Deeds. Paper maps (particularly copy maps included in deeds) can be subject to distortions and inaccuracies, as any copying processes (such as photocopying) can lead to the distortions in the map image.

      A registered title almost never shows ownership of individual boundary structures such as walls, fences and hedges. There may, however, be some relevant information on the register or in Land Registry's files. For example, Land Registry may have kept a copy of a deed that refers to a boundary declaration or agreement, or to the ownership or maintenance of boundaries. Please note that, deeds rarely deal with such matters.

      The Title Plans, whilst being as accurate as possible, are not intended as a guarantee of the measurements of the property, and registration cannot help to resolve boundary disputes. The purpose of the title plan is limited to identifying the position of the property in relation to the features on the Ordnance Survey map.

      The only situation in which the title plan shows an exact boundary is when an application has been made for the boundary to be 'determined'. A 'determined boundary' however is not fixed by Land Registry. It must either be agreed between the neighbours affected, or decided by a judicial determination.

      In context of your situation, I would suggest you refer to one of our blogs - Your boundary questions answered, as it will help explain what information we may hold and how you can obtain it. You can access the blog by clicking on the link https://hmlandregistry.blog.gov.uk/boundary-questions-answered/

      Apart from this, you should seek legal advice before considering any action.

      Reply
  110. Comment by NimishP posted on

    Marian - The intention of title plans prepared by Land Registry is to identify the land / property in the title. They are not meant to show the precise legal boundaries of the property.

    I would suggest you refer to one of our blogs - Your boundary questions answered - https://hmlandregistry.blog.gov.uk/determined-boundary-applications-neighbour-disputes/ . It will help clarify Land Registry's position on boundary matters, what information we hold, and how you can obtain it.

    Reply
  111. Comment by NimishP posted on

    John - Every property has precise legal boundaries. These are the invisible lines separating the land owned by one person from that owned by a neighbour. They may or may not coincide with the physical boundary features on the ground like fences or walls and are not shown on Ordnance Survey maps. The title deeds rarely identify the legal boundaries. The owner probably does not know where they are and having to find out their position of the legal boundaries at the time of registration of the property could be expensive and lead to unnecessary disputes.

    A registered title almost never shows ownership of individual boundary structures such as walls, fences and hedges. There may, however, be some relevant information on the register or in Land Registry's files. For example, Land Registry may have kept a copy of a deed that refers to a boundary declaration or agreement, or to the ownership or maintenance of boundaries. There are, however, no obvious places for filing or recording these information.

    Reply
  112. Comment by Rachel posted on

    Because of a prior slight boundary land swap to straighten a boundary and grant access to both sides over what used to be a shared right of way access, I now have an issue with my buyer. There was an agreement with the previous neighbour, and this was drawn up in deeds that were not registered, there was a change of responsibility for a fence, and a removal of the right of way. The right of way is physically impossible now because of differing ground levels and a concrete fence. This is a concrete fence that partially holds up my garden, as the neighbours dug out a sloped garden to make it level. This is apparently in an unregistered deed. The land swap was so small, a few inches from each side of the original boundary, that it proved impossible to show on an ordinance survey map, so couldn't be registered when the neighbours sold their property. As the old neighbours moved and it was decided not to inform the new neighbours of the land swap. But it also seems this might cause an issue with the fence responsibility. The responsibility was changed from my side to their side on the unregistered deed. As this is a supporting fence it seems quite pertinent. Is it possible to register this unregistered deed? Neither party involved in the original swap has an interest in either property anymore. One being deceased and the others having sold and moved. Is the agreement or deed between the two parties even enforceable?

    Reply
    • Replies to Rachel>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Rachel - I suspect much will depend on whether it is in fact a legal deed and whether it is now binding on the landowners involved. We would not decide on whether it is registerable until an applicaiton to register it against the affecetd titles was submitted.

      I would sugegst seekign legal advice to ascertain whether it is a legal deed and as such whether it can now be enforced.

      Reply
  113. Comment by adamh posted on

    Marian - I'm afraid I don't really understand the scenario and question. Different registered titles will have their own title plan and register. They may differ for a wide variety of reasons but that would not lead to a 'corresponding' entry on a register to explain why the two title differed. If you have a specific scenario then I would recommend contacting us with the specific details and we can try to explain the differences http://landregistry.custhelp.com/app/contactus_general/

    Reply
    • Replies to adamh>

      Comment by Marian Crosbie posted on

      On the 1936 General Map of a neighbouring property you will see the extent of the garden of the corner shop (26 Village Way East / parcel number 54) bordering onto a public pavement on Park Drive. For the past 83 years this has been used as a public footpath in accordance with that map ( see attached https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/6e16fe18d4156db57c5fbbcc59e11fdefcc952357b648205a356c22d024096bf.jpg )

      Alarmed neighbours first learnt of a September 2015 grant of planning by Harrow Council for a single story extension for one shop plot on the public footpath by seeing stakes being driven into the public pavement as building works commenced on 4th May. We wonder what trail of evidence would exist to show why now the land boundary marked red on the title MX15970 differs from that on the original as shown. Planning Enforcement seems not to be able to retract their grant of application. How could a change of use affecting the whole community, compromising line of vision for traffic turning into a Park Drive from Village Way East, taking away space needed for push chairs, wheelchairs and people with a range of disabilities passing round the corner occur despite so inexplicable a boundary change?

      Reply
      • Replies to Marian Crosbie>

        Comment by NimishP posted on

        Marian − Land Registry’s basic role is to keep a register of interests in land, and to make it easier for people to buy and sell land. For each property Land Registry prepares a ‘register’ including a title plan showing the property outlined in red. When it prepares a title plan, Land Registry is required (by rule 5 of the Land Registration Rules 2003) to base the layout on the current Ordnance Survey map for the area. This means that the lines on the title plan representing walls, hedges, fences, roads and other features should be in the same positions as the lines on the Ordnance Survey map showing those same features.

        The lines on the title plan, therefore, should reflect the Ordnance Survey map. From the point of view of the property owner, however, the red lines outlining the title show only ‘general boundaries’ rather than legal boundaries. This is explicitly set out in section 60 of the Land Registration Act 2002.

        The purpose of the title plan is limited to identifying the position of the property in relation to the features on the Ordnance Survey map.
        Title plans are not intended as a guarantee of the measurements of the property, and registration cannot help to resolve boundary disputes. Similarly, Land Registry has no role or power to be in involved in public rights of way or Planning matters.

        Reply
  114. Comment by Purks74 posted on

    I am hopeful this post is still monitored. My Nan (86) sold her house in October 2016 after my grandfather passed. She has since in the last month received a disgusting letter from a solicitor representing the new tenants.

    The letter goes like so:
    When the property was sold you completed a property information form and in the questions related to boundaries you stated that no boundary had been moved. Once our client moved in and cleared the hedge to the rear of the property, they discovered there was a substantial alteration to the property by the neighbor who has constructed an extension over land belonging to the property and altered the boundary fence.

    It is clear that the answers in relation to the boundary were incorrect and you must have known that the answers were not true. Accordingly there has been a serious misrepresentation on your part for which our client is entitled to damages. The damages in relation to the loss of land will be substantial and we estimate the damages will certainly be in excess of £30,000.

    The letter goes on in a similar manner referencing further misrepresentation and crescendos with the following appalling statement:

    ...We see from the official copy of the register, at the date of sale, that there was no loan secured on the property and therefore you will have received £235,00 minus your sales costs. Accordingly there can be no good reason not to agree a compromise and make a payment to our client because the majority of the net proceeds of sale must still be available to you.

    If this isn't a shake down then god only knows what is at play here. The 'new tenants' are apparently also suing the neighbour who had he extension built.

    Now my question here is two fold.
    My elderly Grandmother is unaware of any boundary movement as the extension did not surpass the original footprint as far as she is aware. The fact that there was a hedge removed which allegedly led to this discovery shows that she was in no way impacted by any extension.
    The ex-neighbour has re-confirmed he built the extension to the architectural plans which were based on the existing footprint.

    Surely there has to be some establishment of fact before anyone can accuse my Nan of misrepresentation. Who's responsibility is it to establish whether there has in fact been any boundary movement and if so where is the proof that shows my elderly Nan new this.

    I am disgusted by the tone ad content of this letter but would like some advice please..

    Reply
    • Replies to Purks74>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Purks74 - it's legal advice you need here and I'm afraid we cannot provide that. We can provide registered details and presumably the buyer checked these against the 'footprint' before buying. I would therefore strongly recommend both seeking advice from the solicitor who acted for your Grandmother on the sale and not responding to the letter yourselves.

      If you are looking for wider comment/advice then online forums such as Garden Law or Money Saving Expert can be useful resources but it is legal advice you need

      Reply
      • Replies to adamh>

        Comment by Purks74 posted on

        Thank you. I will seek legal advice.

        Reply
  115. Comment by adamh posted on

    Richard - the Conveyance is a legal deed in it's own right and would have formed part, I suspect, of the original deeds and documents many would refer to as the 'title deeds' prior to the property being registered. Once the property is registered the title deeds are in effect the register and title plan which we hold electronically. The term title deeds can be used in many ways.
    If the register refers to the Conveyance as 'filed' then we should have a copy

    Old deeds and documents may refer to such T marks and include a covenant by the parties to the deed. They can be useful in understanding how the responsibilities were set out at that specific date. That can help but changes of ownership over time and different approaches to who does what re the fencing for example can mean that the specific covenant re the T marks is no longer legally binding.

    There are no hard and fast rules as to when such covenants are put in place but generally speaking when they are the landowner who conveys/transfers the property would own the adjoining land also. As I am sure you appreciate imposing such covenants which then affect a boundary with some other landowner would be unworkable for example. As such you will often find that where such covenants are put in place it is the side boundaries that bear the T marks and not the back/rear which then adjoins another ownership

    If you wish to check the adjoining land ownership and therefore the registered titles involved then that can assist in understanding the position and who might be best to approach to discuss what happens next. There is no bulk discount for searching such information.

    In my experience investigating all the affected registered titles and any recorded information can assist. However it is invariably the views of each affected neighbour that carry more weight, especially where properties have existed for many years and ownership has changed a number of times. It is often far more relevant to consider who did what and when re the boundaries and what details the current owner(s) were given by their sellers for example. Add that to the mix with any registered details and everyone's own understanding and you should be able to agree a way forward.

    My advice would be to check your own details and then open up a line of discussion with the relaxed neighbours to see what details and understanding they have and go from there

    Reply
  116. Comment by Jenny posted on

    how long does it normally take for boundary changes to happen once an application has been put in to the land registry? I'm trying to buy a flat but in the process the sellers have discovered that the current garden is actually on land that belongs to the freeholder. I've been told the freeholder is in agreement for the boundaries to change and they are putting in an application. However my mortgage offer will expire soon and I am wondering roughly how long it will take for the application to be processed and the new plans created?

    Reply
    • Replies to Jenny>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Jenny - if it involves varying a lease then the current average is around 68 working days. If there is an urgency, such as a mortgage offer expiring or purchase pending then the lodging solicitor should contact us with those details and ask us to expedite the process

      Reply
  117. Comment by humphrey23 posted on

    I have bought a plot of land and the neighbour says that a chunk of it belongs to her as the fence was put in the wrong place many years ago. She went to Court in 2004 and won the right to move the fence over but did not do this. I have been told that if a boundary is in place for more than 10 years she cannot now claim my land. Please advise.

    Reply
    • Replies to humphrey23>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      humphrey23 - it's legal advice you need here or if you are looking for wider online advice then forums such as Garden law can be useful resoources
      We cannot provide legal advice but can refer you to our Practice Guides 4 and 5 which explain some of the essentials and registration requirements re 'claiming land' https://www.gov.uk/topic/land-registration/practice-guides

      Reply
  118. Comment by JoAnne Askew posted on

    What does one do if your neighbour is claiming a slice of your garden as their property? We have been told that they do not have enough proof to substantiate their claim. They appear unwilling to burden themselves with the financial cost of having a survey or mediation. We may outlive them, but what if we want to sell before then? What to do? Many thanks.

    Reply
    • Replies to JoAnne Askew>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      JoAnne - it's legal advice you need here as to what your options (and their) might be. We can't offer you legal advice but if you are looking for wider comment then online forums such as Garden Law can be useful resources. But it is legal advice you need

      Reply
      • Replies to adamh>

        Comment by JoAnne Askew posted on

        thanks 🙂 shall take a look at Garden Law website.

        Reply
  119. Comment by chattach posted on

    Hi. Is there a set measurment fot parking spaces? On my deeds it shows myself and my neighbors have a off road parking just behine our houses. however where people are marking spaces themselves there does not seem to be enough spaces or some people have bigger spaces than others.

    Reply
    • Replies to chattach>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Charrach - there is no set measurement. Invariably it comes down to interpretaiton of the deed, the plan and layout on the ground normally starting with the landowner who initially defined the spaces. If there is no definition then it can come down to individual interpretation and negotiaiton between neighbours I suspect

      Reply
  120. Comment by Claudia Hurford posted on

    Hi , we are in the process of buying a probate property which is on unregistered land. The title plan seems to show that access to the properties drive is over a common driveway off the main road which seems to be within the next door neighbour's boundary. their property is also unregistered. How do we resolve this now so that when we come to register the land after completion there will be no issues. I believe the past owners lived in the house for at least 30 years and presumably have had no problems accessing their property! Thank you

    Reply
    • Replies to Claudia Hurford>

      Comment by NimishP posted on

      Hi Claudia - As both the properties are unregistered, we would have no knowledge or records pertaining to them. So it would be up to you and your solicitor to verify the deeds and confirm that there are no problems.

      Reply
      • Replies to NimishP>

        Comment by Claudia Hurford posted on

        Thank you for your fast response.

        Reply
  121. Comment by Monika Sinicka posted on

    Hello
    I wonder if any one still reads these comments
    Im looking for an advice re title deeds
    We have put a 3 foot fence in communal ( in deeds)area in front of our house
    Factors threaten us with legal action if we dont remove it but more and more neighbours erect fences
    Where do we stand here?
    Thank you
    Monika

    Reply
    • Replies to Monika Sinicka>

      Comment by NimishP posted on

      Hello Monika - I am afraid it is not for us to advise you where you stand on the matter.

      You need to seek legal advice either by speaking to a solicitor or Citizens Advice.

      Reply
      • Replies to NimishP>

        Comment by Monika Sinicka posted on

        Thank you i have booked an appointment with a lawyer
        Regards

        Reply
  122. Comment by Ana V posted on

    Hello
    Our deeds mention: Party Boundary means 'any other wall, fence or hedge on a boundary between the Property and any other part of the development on which the dwelling stands unless marked with 'T' on the plan. Maintainance of Party boundaries is to be at joint and equal expense of both Transferee abd registered proprietors from time to time of adjoining plot concerned' . We live in terraced house and have hedge separating us from house on the left. A straight line between the houses makes the entire hedge fall in boundary of the other house. Does this mean if the hedge was removed, the land on which the hedge stands is owned by that house on the left?Title deeds show a dotted line between the houses on the front..

    Reply
    • Replies to Ana V>

      Comment by NimishP posted on

      Ana - Land Registry would have no knowledge if the hedge was moved or sits within land belonging to one title. Land Registry registers ownership of land and properties in England and Wales.

      With regards to boundaries and extents, it is usually very difficult to find out the exact position of a boundary as most registered land and property in England and Wales is registered with general boundaries. This is because when a property is first registered:
      • the title deeds rarely give precise legal boundaries
      • often owners do not know where they are
      • finding out the exact position of the legal boundaries at the time of registration can be expensive and may lead to unnecessary disputes.

      The physical boundary is a feature that can be seen, such as a fence, wall or a hedge. The legal boundary may follow any physical boundary structure but might just as easily run along one particular side of the fence, wall or hedge, or include all or part of any adjoining roadway or stream.

      Every property has precise legal boundaries. These are the invisible lines separating the land owned by one person from that owned by a neighbour. They may or may not coincide with the physical boundary features on the ground like fences or walls and are not shown on Ordnance Survey maps. The title deeds rarely identify the legal boundaries. The owner probably does not know where they are and having to find out their position of the legal boundaries at the time of registration of the property could be expensive and lead to unnecessary disputes.

      Hope this is helpful.

      Reply
  123. Comment by NimishP posted on

    Ana - While it may not be something that you would like to hear, you do need to seek legal advice. As a government agency, we cannot tell you anything that can be perceived as 'legal advice' and have to remain neutral in all situations.

    I am not sure what you mean by "..id for guidance"

    You might find of interest some of the information in one of our blog - Your boundary questions answered. The blog can be accessed by clicking on the link - https://hmlandregistry.blog.gov.uk/boundary-questions-answered/

    Reply
    • Replies to NimishP>

      Comment by Ana V posted on

      I meant email the plan to an email id for your team to examine. Could I get exact boundary determined with a qualified land surveyor and appy with land registry to register it instead of going the legal way..

      Reply
      • Replies to Ana V>

        Comment by NimishP posted on

        Ana - Thanks for the clarification.

        You are perfectly within your rights to send us the documents you wish, but our position on giving advice would remain the same.

        You can seek to get the boundaries of your property Determined with the help of a surveyor, but that would need agreement of your neighbours as well. Please see the guidance on our website - https://www.gov.uk/your-property-boundaries

        We would certainly not suggest people go the legal way to resolve any boundary issues. Our recommendation is always to have an amicable discussion with the neighbours and come to some agreement without resorting to legal. However, we would also recommend people seek legal advice to be aware of all the issues.

        Reply
  124. Comment by adamh posted on

    Angie - boundary disputes are often only resolved between the respective neighbours. If the school owns the land then it is the neighbour you would normally need to approach to resolve the issue.

    The local authority are likly to only be involved if they are an affected landowner or the rubbish contravenes any legislation they are responsible for enforcing. You could contact the local authority to see if they should/can be involved

    Reply
    • Replies to adamh>

      Comment by Angie Moss Hemmings posted on

      There doesn't seem to be any talking to this neighbour. The rubbish is large garden waste like chopped up wooden shed and large wooden garden gate on two separate occasions. We couldn't touch the rubbish without getting snarled at. It's unfair to have to put up with others actions. Thanks for a reply I will have a look at my councils website.

      Reply
      • Replies to Angie Moss Hemmings>

        Comment by adamh posted on

        Angie - unfortunately such matters are invariably self-policed between neighbours. We provide registered details and are not able to enforce anything.
        The LA may be able to assist if there are wider community issues re the 'rubbish' such as health & safety

        Reply
  125. Comment by adamh posted on

    Caron - if it's part of your property then you would be responsible for the land and what's on it

    Reply
    • Replies to adamh>

      Comment by Caron Kolowiecki posted on

      Thanks Adam. I did suspect as such but from the sounds of it previous owners have not taken responsibility for it although the guy to the right of it seems to have taken it upon himself to do it of late.

      Reply
      • Replies to Caron Kolowiecki>

        Comment by adamh posted on

        Caron - I guess anyone can do anything until someone stops them. Only thing to be wary of if someone is maintaining the land is that they may seek to claim it as their own at a later date. So may be worth clarifying things with a solicitor for example so you know where you stand on both counts

        Reply
  126. Comment by NimishP posted on

    ejane - We cannot tell you if or what extent of the land belongs to you or the neighbour as that would be going beyond the remit of Land Registry.

    With regards to boundaries and extents, it is usually very difficult to find out the exact position of a boundary as most registered land and property in England and Wales is registered with general boundaries. This is because when a property is first registered:
    • the title deeds rarely give precise legal boundaries
    • often owners do not know where they are
    • finding out the exact position of the legal boundaries at the time of registration can be expensive and may lead to unnecessary disputes.

    The physical boundary is a feature that can be seen, such as a fence, wall or a hedge. The legal boundary may follow any physical boundary structure but might just as easily run along one particular side of the fence, wall or hedge.

    Every property has precise legal boundaries. These are the invisible lines separating the land owned by one person from that owned by a neighbour. They may or may not coincide with the physical boundary features on the ground like fences or walls and are not shown on Ordnance Survey maps. The title deeds rarely identify the legal boundaries. The owner probably does not know where they are and having to find out their position of the legal boundaries at the time of registration of the property could be expensive and lead to unnecessary disputes.

    Our recommendation would be to discuss with the neighbour and come to some amicable agreement. If, however, there is no agreement then we would suggest you seek legal advice.

    Reply
  127. Comment by Nicky Sedgwick posted on

    If there are exact measurements given on a plan and attached to the TP1 document we received from the solicitors at completion is it reasonable to assume we own this amount of land or can another party have a claim on it?

    Reply
    • Replies to Nicky Sedgwick>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Nicky - a plan with measurements can help but identify the land being transferred. However you won't know where they measured from and whether the lie of the land impacted for example.
      I'm not too sure what the link is though to ownership and another's claim. If the land was transferred then presumably it was registered. If someone claims land then that is not based on deeds/measurements but on occupation/use
      If there is a dispute over who owns the land then look at the title and deed plans and agree where the boundary is. Providing the disputed land is not a matter of inches/cms then it should be fairly clear as the article explains

      Reply
  128. Comment by adamh posted on

    Taylor - you can contact us with the specific details and we can check to see if we received and then retained such a plan. If we did we will then let you know how you can apply by post for a copy. Due to the age of the record we will have to retrieve our paper records to check
    https://land-registry.custhelp.com/app/contactus_general/

    Reply
  129. Comment by Adopt a pet posted on

    I may understand the rules with the fences and boundaries but what about animals and pets jumping over the fence? There are two cats who come after my chickens every single day and I don't know whose cats they are.

    Reply
    • Replies to Adopt a pet>

      Comment by NimishP posted on

      Adopt a pet - I am afraid these are not matters that Land Registry has any involvement or say.

      Reply
  130. Comment by m h posted on

    I have a plot at number 3 Ellesmere Gardens Bolton and it has been registered with land registry since 1997,apparently the gentleman from number 4 as started to build a house and is encroaching on my land where my foundation are , so can you please guide me whats the best solution to sort the problem out has I have no clue what to do.

    Reply
    • Replies to m h>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      m h - you need to get legal advice as to how to stop the building works if you own the land.

      Reply
  131. Comment by steve evans posted on

    Am in process of selling my home of which i have lived 32 years - in 2004 I was advised to draw up a document in which my neighbour and i agreed to move our boundary to both our satisfaction - no payments made -showing the changes on a plan and countersigned by both parties.
    Will this now be sufficient ?

    Reply
    • Replies to steve evans>

      Comment by NimishP posted on

      Steve - Was the document that formalised the agreement between you and your neighbour noted on the relevant titles at Land Registry?

      If yes, then anyone interested in the property should be able to confirm the arrangement when they examine the title register. If not, then you need to reveal and discuss it with your legal advisor.

      Reply
  132. Comment by NimishP posted on

    Suzanne - As a government agency, it is not within our powers or remit to tell you something that could be perceived as 'legal advice'. You need to consider seeking guidance from a solicitor, if you have one, or Citizens Advice.

    Reply
    • Replies to NimishP>

      Comment by Suzanne Harding posted on

      If on my plans it is a block coloured in pink up to the kerb than can i perceive that all the land coloured in pink mine by the title deeds|? otherwise what is the point of the title deeds?

      Reply
      • Replies to Suzanne Harding>

        Comment by NimishP posted on

        Suzanne - For each property HM Land Registry prepares a ‘register’ including a title plan showing the property outlined in red or by pink tint. When we prepare a title plan, we are required (by rule 5 of the Land Registration Rules 2003) to base the layout on the current Ordnance Survey map for the area. This means that the lines on the title plan representing walls, hedges, fences, roads and other features should be in the same positions as the lines on the Ordnance Survey map showing those same features.
        From the point of view of the property owner, the red lines or the pink tint outlining the title show only ‘general boundaries’ rather than legal boundaries. The purpose of the title plan is limited to identifying the position of the property in relation to the features on the Ordnance Survey map. Title plans are not intended as a guarantee of the measurements of the property, and registration cannot help to resolve boundary disputes.

        Whilst we always recommend that the parties concerned discuss and come to an amicable solution, we would also suggest they get legal advice or speak to Citizens Advice before considering any action.

        Reply
  133. Comment by NimishP posted on

    Sofia - I suggest you refer to one of our blog, Your boundary questions answered.

    You can access the blog by clicking on the link attached - https://hmlandregistry.blog.gov.uk/boundary-questions-answered/

    It will explain what information we hold in relation to boundary issues and how you can obtain that information.

    Reply
  134. Comment by Bryn Dineen posted on

    Hello - I have a plot of land that I want to physically divide in two - one half to be sold to the house behind it for a garden and the remaining roadside bit to be developed into parking spaces. Who can physically establish the new boundary and reflect that in the new title deeds? Would it be an engineer? A solicitor? I don't know who to approach - any help would be very gratefully received

    Reply
    • Replies to Bryn Dineen>

      Comment by NimishP posted on

      Bryn - You should speak to a Surveyor in the first place. Your local Yellow Pages will include a list.

      Reply
  135. Comment by Liz posted on

    The termini and turning points of the determined boundary must be related to sharply defined points of enduring detail (such as to the corner of a building, but not to a tree trunk, a bend in a river, or a moveable shed). Is this true? I have seen this advice on the internet and it seems in line with the general guidance on determined boundaries that I have seen. Please comment.

    Reply
    • Replies to Liz>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Liz - our PG 40 supplement 4 includes in section 4 our guidance on determined boundaries and the type of plan and measurements to use. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/boundary-agreements-and-determined-boundaries

      A determined boundary does not have to coincide with a physical feature. Where it does, the determined boundary plan will show the determined boundary on a specific side of a physical feature, such as a wall, fence, hedge, tree, ditch and so on, or passing through specific points within the width of the physical feature. So it is not a 'must' to relate the plan in the way you have suggested

      Reply
      • Replies to adamh>

        Comment by Liz posted on

        OK but say it was on a physical boundary that grows and decays and the boundary was specifically defined as a centre rootline of some trees, how can this be a determined boundary. Say the boundary has for quite a while in the past, been the centre rootline of the trees and the parties wish for the boundary to remain on the centre rootline of those trees over time. I don't understand how it is possible that the boundary is a determined boundary, even with defining the position specifically at one point in time, the boundary position will change over time. That is precisely why general boundaries exist, is it not?

        Reply
        • Replies to Liz>

          Comment by adamh posted on

          Liz - yes it is. But a Determined boundary relies on a defined plan

          Reply
  136. Comment by JJ SS posted on

    Hello,
    A boundary of registered land goes at a slight angle, circa 10 degrees then makes an angle turn back. My neighbour and I would like to make the boundary a straight line at 90 degrees at the houses (semi-detatched houses) . This will result in a few sqm land being transfered to the neighbouring property. Will a Boundary Agreement suffice with or without AP1 / DB form or do we have to do TP1 plus a consent from the Lenders?
    If the latter, do we need solicitors or TP1 doesn't require a witnessing of signature by a solicitor?
    Many thanks.

    Reply
    • Replies to JJ SS>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      JJ SS - if you are transferring land then it would be the TP1 route with consents as appropriate. You are likely to find that the lenders will insist on you using solicitors to complete the process. Solicitors are not needed to witness a signature/deed

      Reply
      • Replies to adamh>

        Comment by JJ SS posted on

        Thank you Adam. When is a Boundary Agreement sufficient then? From what I read, such an Agreement sets where the boundary is. A few inches or feet either way of the drawn up line should be within the ambit of a Boundary Agreement, isn't it? There is no pirchase per se. Physical transfer of land, yes, but it's so negligible that it's only to straighten a zig-zag fence, that looks ugly both on the Title plan and the ground.
        To clarify:
        1. If we have a Boundary Agreement, will it hold any weight to protect both properies that this is the boundary irrespective of what the title plan shows? Be valid and binding on future owners too? We will probably register the Agreement but even if not registered, say I sell my house, I give the agreeement to the buyer and they know what they are buying with no attempts to move the fence in accordance with the the Title plan, because a Boundary Agreement supersedes the drawing on the Title plan ?
        2. If we transfer on TP1, for no consideration (money) is the fee £40. Do you need drawn up Title plan of the 2 properties only or of all other houses in the vicinity as the title plans are usually? Do you want it on paper or via electronic means so you can use it to change your records?
        Thank you.

        Reply
        • Replies to JJ SS>

          Comment by adamh posted on

          JJ SS - boundary agreements are essentially used where the changes are so small, size-wise, that you are effectively ironing out what the title plan for example can't define. If you word it correctly and bind future iwners then it can work in the way suggested. We can't help answer the other questions as you simply don't know how someone else will view the arrangement. If you have a straight line on the plan but a zig zag fence in the same position then I'm unsure why you would then need an agreement to change things re the title - you are simply putting a straight fence and in a place where you can see a straight line on the plan. The PG is very clear as to when a BA or DB might apply.

          A TP1 woukd be £40 for each Transfer and you need a paper form and suitable plan. Many use a title plan but again all about the detail and if you are using the title plan it suggests even more that it is the exchange route you need here. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/using-transfer-forms-for-less-straightforward-transactions

          Reply
  137. Comment by adamh posted on

    Disqus - I'm not aware of it but I'd suggest getting legal advice or you could try forums such as Garden Law where such matters are often discussed

    Reply
  138. Comment by Ben Bartholomew posted on

    Hi - We are purchasing a property and the boundary at the front of the property stops 10ft short of the actual wall of the front garden. The bit of land does not belong to anyone (after land search) and the seller has signed documents claiming that she has maintained that part of the property for over 20 years. It does not have access to other properties/land, and next door's property does extend the full length. Is it an easy process to register this part of land as part of the deeds for the seller? or is there any concerns here being the buyer? We are waiting for this to be confirmed before purchasing, but it's taking time.

    Reply
  139. Comment by adamh posted on

    Liz - see 4.3 of the PG on Boundary agreements and Determined boundaries

    Reply
  140. Comment by adamh posted on

    Leanne - its legal advice you now need to ascertain whether you have taken possession if the land over time. The law is very complex but if you establish that you have a valid claim then you may want to then seek to register it. Our Practice Guides 4 and 5 explain the registration requirements https://www.gov.uk/topic/land-registration/practice-guides

    Reply
  141. Comment by adamh posted on

    Jenny - our PG 40 explains the process for registering a boundary agreement. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/boundary-agreements-and-determined-boundaries
    Third party notification is optional so very much up to the applicant

    Reply
  142. Comment by Bruce Lowe posted on

    I understand in common law that a "boundary fence" is "any fence , the posts of which are within 3 ft. of the boundary of the property ". Where can I find this ?

    Reply
    • Replies to Bruce Lowe>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Bruce - it's legal advice you need to understand the law and whether that referejnce appears anywhere. If you are looking for online help then I would sugegst forums sucha s Garden Law where such matters are often discussed. It is not a reference I have read before. in the context of land registration

      Reply
      • Replies to adamh>

        Comment by Bruce Lowe posted on

        Many thanks. I found it once on the internet, but now I cannot find the site again.

        Reply
  143. Comment by adamh posted on

    Chris - if it's registered then yes using the links provided in the article

    Reply
    • Replies to adamh>

      Comment by Chris Hicks posted on

      Adam - which of the documents would have the boundary responsibility in it?

      Reply
      • Replies to Chris Hicks>

        Comment by adamh posted on

        Chris - there's no guarantee that the register will refer but always something to check as it can help, even if silent. Boundaries are usually mentioned as part of the covenants (if any). Do read the article in full and the linked guidance before buying any information

        Reply
  144. Comment by Lorraine Saunders posted on

    Where do i stand, as a developer has built a housing estate at the rear of my garden. i and other neighbours complained that they where measuring out the land right upto our fences. All the neighbours informed them that our boundary was actually to the centre of a foot path which is a further 7meters from our fences as we have a ditch next to fence. So they where given the permission to build but now the house are not within the permitted redevelopment distance

    Reply
    • Replies to Lorraine Saunders>

      Comment by NimishP posted on

      Lorraine - I am afraid this is not something that we can assist you with. You would need to speak to a solicitor, if you have one, or may be the Citizens Advice on what you options are.

      HM Land Registry just records ownership of land / property and the things that go with it. We have no role in Planning matters, which are managed by the local authorities, and also no powers or remit to adjudicate on boundary matters.

      Reply
  145. Comment by tenretnitb posted on

    Isnt it time you did have some hard and fast rules for marking /identifying boundaries?

    Reply
    • Replies to tenretnitb>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      tenretnitb - land law decides how boundaries should be marked/identified and that has been the case for centuries ever since land ownership began.
      The position of the exact legal boundary can be identified providing the neighbouring land owners agree and formalise that arrangement - the determined boundary process is there for that purpose.
      However as the manner in which boundaries have been defined both on land and on paper down the centuries it is very unlikely that hard and fast rules would be put in place unless the government of the day decided it should be so. To do so would mean the government enforcing such rules for all.
      As such you may wish to approach your own MP to seek a view as to whether such rules are something they might consider?

      Reply
  146. Comment by Gerald Flynn posted on

    My neighbour and myself want to alter our boundary lines so that they coincide with the hedges in our gardens. Presently by the boundary I own a portion of his garden and he owns a much smaller portion. What are the forms we need to complete and process to rectify this?

    Reply
  147. Comment by John Williams posted on

    I live in a terrace house. My neighbours on both sides are end terraced. Unfortunately I have fallen out with one of my neighbours on one end/side, the left side as you look out of the back. I have an agreement with my right hand neighbour that our shared fence is my responsibility. This is the same agreement he has with his neighbour on his right, albeit not part of the terrace. So the fence to my left in my opinion is my other neighbours responsibility otherwise I am responsible for 1 & half fences. Is that right ?

    Reply
    • Replies to John Williams>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      John - only if that is the legally binding position and/or that's what is agreed with the neighbour. You can't say 'it's right' based solely on the posted details in my experience, and that's really explained for you in the blog.

      Reply
  148. Comment by Amelia posted on

    Hi
    My neighbours came to me with their land registry/paperwork from when they bought their house and stated they have a right of way around my property.
    I just bought a copy of their title plan and title deeds on the gov website which doesn’t state it exists. Should it?
    Also it doesn’t exist on my paper work and the solicitor did not find it ever existing when we bought our property 6 months ago. I’m currently waiting to hear back from them on what happens now but thought you could help me find the information.
    Does it also have to exist on both peoples paperwork for it to be legal?

    Reply
    • Replies to Amelia>

      Comment by adamh posted on

      Amelia - rights can also be referred to in deeds 'filed' against the title. Are there any such entries on the Registers?
      And whilst nowadays such rights should be registered against all affected titles historically that may not always happen, especially if registered some years apart. It's rare though fir legal easements (rights) relating to rights of way/access to not appear on both the benefiting and serviant titles. Can you give me one of them perhaps and I can take a look and hopefully give you a steer?

      Reply
      • Replies to adamh>

        Comment by Amelia posted on

        Hi Adam!
        No there’s nothing on there saying that either.
        The only easement that it says is to the council for repairs work.
        The houses aren’t that old and only bought off the council in 94 and 97.
        Yeah I can give you a copy of the ones I just downloaded? What email address shall I send them to?

        Reply
  149. Comment by Ann Mitchell posted on

    Hi.

    Our neighbour has come to us with a boundary dispute. The land registry documentation shows the boundary in a different place to its physical location. The house, belonging to our neighbour, and the garages which belong to us, were up until 1978 on the same plot of land. We have not changed the boundary since we bought the garages in 1986. This new neighbour bought the house in 2007. We have a photo which dates back to about 1990 which shows a wooden fence in the same location as a newer metal railing. I concede that the railing is in a rather unusual place, about 2’ over on the front wall of the house, but maintain that it was placed there probably as early as the 1920’s in order to facilitate access of vehicles to the garages. (It’s a tight if not impossible manoeuvre otherwise). We don’t have a bottomless pit of money for litigation so would appreciate your comments. We don’t want to render the garages useless by just moving the railing over in line with the trajectory of the flank wall of his property.

    Reply
    • Replies to Ann Mitchell>

      Comment by Ian posted on

      Ann - In reality title deeds rarely define exactly where legal boundaries lie, even if there are plans attached to them. As you have referred to, there are also often apparent differences between what is shown in the deeds and the physical position of boundary structures on the ground,

      As the referred to in the blog , the same applies to the title plans that we prepare. The red edging shown on our plans gives a general indication only of the boundary location. This is because of the ‘General Boundaries Rule’ which means that whilst we use plans that are drawn to scale, they cannot be used to establish the precise location of legal boundaries.

      Ultimately, information in title deeds and other resources, such as a survey, would only really be of assistance to you in you reaching an agreement with your neighbour. Where there is a disagreement or dispute which cannot be resolved, ultimately such matters may need to to be decided in other jurisdictions such as the courts. Any steps to define the boundary in a more formal way, such as by a binding agreement, would also need to be with the agreement and participation of all the parties involved.

      If you are unsure how to proceed, you might consider getting some independent legal advice, for example from Citizen's Advice or a conveyancer, such as solicitor. A legal professional will be able to give you advice on how a court may view this and will also take into account other legal matters which may come into play.

      I am sorry we cannot be of more assistance, but I hope this of help in confirming the position as far as HMLR is concerned.

      Reply
      • Replies to Ian>

        Comment by Ann Mitchell posted on

        Hi Ian. Thank for you comments. Would it be if benefit to instruct a surveyor who deals with boundary disputes to do a report. Someone locally who can look at the physical features. Based on his view of the boundary, and if he agrees with us, then possibly submit to the land registry a formal request to list the boundary as per his report and go from there. I’m thinking if the other party continue to dispute it would then go to the land registry tribunal.

        Reply
        • Replies to Ann Mitchell>

          Comment by Ian posted on

          Hi Ann. You appear to be referring to an application for alteration of a title - please see our Practice Guide 77 which relates to this - http://bit.ly/2hpQ3yK. It is written for legal professionals and may therefore contain some unfamiliar terms. This a very complex area and a number of legal issues may come into play. We can give procedural advice but we cannot advise on whether this is the appropriate action to take in your case and we also cannot advise on the nature or suitability of any evidence that supports such an application.

          Our guidance on working out the boundary more precisely may also be useful to read - https://www.gov.uk/your-property-boundaries . The information under 'Neighbour disputes about boundaries' refers to what happens if a boundary agreement is lodged and it doesn't have the agreement of your neighbour.

          Any dispute involving the Tribunal or court proceedings may involve considerable expense. As mentioned, if you are in any doubt as to how to proceed, you may want to consider getting some independent legal advice.

          Reply

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